Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on April 19th, 2018

[Abdullah Bozkurt]

We actually issued a report on the abuse of Interpol by the Turkish government. There were two significant cases. One is Swedish and the other is a German national, both with a Turkish background. They were detained in Spain. It created huge troubles in different capitals of Europe and it became a problem with Interpol. It is a very pressing concern for many people, including me. If you want to travel abroad, you may end up in a country where the Turkish government conveys an arrest warrant through Interpol and that government makes it possible or is amenable to executing that false warrant against you and other critics. That should be taken up with Interpol, because it's actually against the Interpol constitution. All political cases shouldn't be taken up with Interpol, because the system is based on going after real criminals, not political critics and dissidents. Unfortunately, the Erdogan government is abusing the system to create an intimidation campaign for people in the diaspora.

Another significant threat I see in the diaspora communities is that Erdogan's long arm is really operating within the diaspora groups, deepening the division, expanding the polarization, and they're using the pro-government people as spies against other critics, to harass them and issue threats. That is another challenge we face in the diaspora communities and we need the prosecutors and other authorities to actually come in and crack down on this harassment and intimidation campaign within the diaspora groups, just to make sure these critics who live in exile can live peacefully and they can still keep writing and speaking up. That is a very pressing issue for many exiled people.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Ms. Yildiz.

[Arzu Yildiz]

It is not the only problem. A very important problem is that if they investigate you, they take your passport, first, and not just yours but your husband's and your kids' as well. They will never let them go out anywhere. For this reason, people are in fear of the government system and torture. Everyone knows what happens in the Turkish prisons and the police offices.

If they want to leave Turkey, they try the illegal way. It is dangerous. Sometimes they die in the Maritsa River. Some families and also children have died in the Maritsa at the border of Greece and Turkey.

On the other hand, I want to say, there is no opposition party in Turkey. They do everything together, because their option is, if they don't, a lot of people are tortured or detained every morning. They wake up with the operation every morning. It is not regular things and not normal. However, I think in the background they agree with it. They do everything together.

Only one party, maybe Afghanistan, the Kurdish party, would oppose, but, for example, Selahattin Demirtas and the other chairman were detained, jailed. Others work together with Erdogan. They don't want to show their faces. They use the Erdogan face for all crime. If they don't let them, they can leave the parliament. Everything is finished there. They have no rule in the parliament.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you.

We have time for one last short question. We do have some committee business and we need to go in camera at the end of this meeting.

I'll hand the floor over to MP Fragiskatos for a short question, please.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you; and thank you to the witnesses.

Mr. Bozkurt, I'm struggling to understand what the Gülen movement is all about. I'm certainly very concerned about the human rights abuses that have been perpetrated by the Erdogan government. However, is the Gülen movement simply a self-improvement organization, or does it harbour political interests and ambitions? I know they have a strong position in civil society, but there are also supporters of the Gülen movement in the police, the judiciary, and the military. Mr. Erdogan has used that to frame the Gülen movement, or Hizmet as it is otherwise known, as evidence that they pose a threat to the state. Is there anything to substantiate that?

[Abdullah Bozkurt]

We have so many cases that we can look up. There is no single evidence as far as I can see. I didn't find any. The only problem in this narrative is that we don't have an independent judicial force in Turkey. The prosecutors and the judges need to rely on the police force, which is managed by the government, a different branch of the government. They came up with a scheme. If the prosecutor ordered the police force to investigate, then the mandate lies with the judiciary, not with the government, not with the executive branch because we don't have an independent judiciary. They need to co-operate on investigating the cases.

The government picks up on that and says they see the police force and judges co-operating. That's the nature of the business. That is a major criticism from the European Union and for so many years they have asked the Turkish government to create an independent judicial force that can investigate different crimes. The Gülen movement is a completely volunteer-driven organization led by a man living in the States. I think he is 80 years old. He has never offered a political ambition. He never ran on a candidate ticket and he never established a party.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I hate to interrupt you, but it's an important point, the statement that he made in the late 1990s encouraging followers to get involved in politics, to take on the main arteries of the state. “Embed yourselves”, I believe is what he said, or something to that effect. He then said that was a fabricated video statement that was released. So is there nothing to that statement at all? Were those not his words?

I'm struggling to understand Fethullah Gülen's ambitions. Is it simply about organizing a movement that seeks the self-improvement of Turks as individuals or is there something more? Is there political ambition there? It's hard for me to assess this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Can you answer that in one minute? We need to move on to committee business.

Thank you very much.

[Abdullah Bozkurt]

As I mentioned in my introductory remarks, the movement set up over 1,000 of the best performing schools in Turkey. The best and the brightest graduate from these school. They have every right to enter into any government institution based on their merits and their qualifications, of course. It was very natural because they are the top schools in Turkey, and many of them come from the school whether they're Gülenists or not. Many people in Turkey have nothing to do with the Gülen movement at all. They sent their kids, including some of the lawmakers from Erdogan's party. They wanted to get the best prospects for their children.

As for the call that was discussed many years ago, it was misquoted and it was fabricated. Actually, there was a case that went on for almost a decade. It ended in 2008 and Gülen was acquitted of these charges. However, it is rehashed and comes back whenever the politicians wanted to strike back at him.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

I'd like to thank both of our witnesses for their important testimony here today. I'm now going to suspend while we move in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]