Evidence of meeting #114 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ukraine.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON
You mentioned global partners in regard to sanctions. Who particularly would we need to have in order to make the next wave of sanctions really produce behaviour change?
1:45 p.m.
Senior Policy Advisor, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
The biggest player in the room is the Americans. The second-biggest is the European Union. Everyone saw the significant effects of the sanctions that came into force in April, and those were only American, right? Europe did not match those either. The European Union acting by itself can also move things, but Europe is 28 countries, which makes it a lot harder to gain consensus there than with the Americans. Japan, obviously, is also an important player, but essentially those two are the biggest entities.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON
Thank you.
I will turn it over to my colleague now.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
The religious entities I would say have been both used and have used this situation to advantage. Can you talk a bit about that? In February 2018 in Luhansk they passed a law that there must be no new religious entities unless they are tied to the traditional ones. The Russian Orthodox Church has been part of this whole conflict.
Can you talk a little about that and also about some of the pressures that are faced by groups such as the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Crimean Tatars in terms of their religious faith?
1:45 p.m.
Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
I'm happy to speak about the religious faith angle of it. We had a visit to Ottawa about two months ago by one of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church authorities. The process their churches and other institutions in Crimea have had to undergo is to basically rename themselves and re-register with the authorities. They were not allowed to use the same names or many of the terminologies they would be associated with in other countries. I'm speaking very carefully, because it's a very particular security situation for those folks as well.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Are they being required to link to the Russian Orthodox Church?
1:45 p.m.
Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
No, but they are required to re-register as a new organization, as a new entity. I was told there are surveillance cameras, both audio and visual, that are being placed in multi-faith...in mosques, in Roman Catholic and Ukrainian Catholic and you-name-it kinds of churches in Crimea, to monitor both who is leading the service and what is being said. We believe it leads to the dominance of the Russian Orthodox Church as they clamp down by imposing things like work visas and citizenship requirements for those work visas. It essentially becomes impossible for these other faith groups to operate in a legal way, because the bureaucratic structure being pushed down at them basically makes it impossible to exist.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
I think I'm running out of time, but I'd like you to talk a little about what life on the line is like. It's not a traditional war and traditional front. The line seems to be moving back and forth. Civilians are living on both sides of it.
1:50 p.m.
Senior Policy Advisor, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
Civilians on the Ukrainian side of the line never know when an artillery shell is going to be fired. The Russians and Russian proxy side place heavy weapons in cities. They put an artillery piece in a city. Ukraine is not going to fire into civilian areas, but the Russian side does. It is a pretty terrible situation for civilians. A lot have left. Some can't; some have elderly parents or circumstances that don't let them leave. If not every day, certainly a couple of times a week there are civilian casualties on the Ukrainian side.
There has not been significant movement or changes in the geography of the front for about four years now, so that line is heavily fortified. There are trenches and all the other typical things you see in a land war of the 20th century. It's an awful situation for civilians in the occupied territories because you have—
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt
Mr. Zakydalsky, I'm going to ask you to cut it off there. We're running out of time, and I want to give all members a chance.
Mr. Fragiskatos, go ahead, please.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
I'll share my time with Mr. Whalen.
Thank you for appearing here today. You always provide great testimony. I know that's true of this committee and of the foreign affairs committee as well.
I want to ask about democracy and civil society to understand the nature of civil society approaches in Ukraine a little more.
Supporting democracy is a very important component of the bilateral relationship Canada has with Ukraine. Where is the focus of civil society organizations in Ukraine? Where is this issue of Russia? Where does it rank in its importance? Is it a situation of civil society organizations rallying together and making this their fundamental issue of concern, or is their focus more fragmented and focused on other things?
1:50 p.m.
Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
The MPs from Ukraine whom you'll meet next week represent a rich and wide group of civil society in Ukraine, but they have come together, especially in recent months, as the situation of the political prisoners becomes more dire and as the hunger strikes escalate. We are seeing that everyone is concerned and bringing forward their actions and their expertise into the social media real world, campaigning to free these people and to highlight this situation.
As you know, a very broad civil society works on everything from environment to democracy-building, but I think the conflict with Russia and the aggression, torture, detainment, and human rights violations have predominated and will continue to predominate the activity of these groups.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
You mentioned environmental groups as an example. It's almost as if they're starting to focus on Russia.
1:55 p.m.
Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
I think it's very difficult to be an activist in Ukraine and not recognize that the immediate existential threat to the country exists, and it's very difficult to undertake other reforms and other actions without fundamentally addressing the basic situation that is clearly in front of everyone.
1:55 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
That helps for our understanding.
I'll turn it over to Mr. Whalen.
1:55 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
In terms of human rights in the area, I'm wondering if you have any knowledge of what access Ukrainian native language speakers would have to medical and education services in the occupied areas of the Donbass, and what access to education services native Russian speakers would have on the Ukrainian side of the Minsk boundaries.
1:55 p.m.
Senior Policy Advisor, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
I don't think there's a Ukrainian language school left open in Crimea. If there is, it would be one or two. Basically, in the occupied territories in the east, there is also a policy of essentially forceful implementation of the Russian language. That area on the Ukrainian side is also a predominantly Russian-speaking area, but that's not to say that people don't speak Ukrainian there. I wouldn't say that it's safe to be a Ukrainian speaker in the occupied territories.
That is not true in government-controlled Ukraine. There are a dozen MPs who are going to be here. I'm sure that for some of them, their first language is Russian. If you watch any news footage of the Ukrainian soldiers, you'll see that a significant proportion of the Ukrainian military is Russian-speaking.
On one side you have the Ukrainian government taking a civic view of citizenship, of language rights, and of all these other things. On the other side is a targeted policy of the imposition of the Russian language and Russian culture and so forth.
1:55 p.m.
NDP
Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Thanks.
To wrap up, gentlemen, if we're going to have an international community with Canada included that has a cohesive response, how do you see Canada playing a role in keeping this on the international agenda?
I'll leave you with that. That was a nice pitch.
1:55 p.m.
Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
I'll do a very quick response. We think the best opportunity, obviously, is the G7 presidency, which Canada has this year. We know Canada has always has a strong international reputation, both in Ukraine and internationally, with many allies, both in NATO and in other strategic organizations such as the UN and so on.
We believe, now more than ever, that this kind of leadership is necessary. We believe that the willingness of our allies is there to take joint action. We believe that the situation is unfortunately deteriorating in terms of the human rights situation on the ground, both for individual political prisoners and for the situation in the conflict zones. The time for action is now, and we believe that Canada has the will and the resources to take that kind of leadership role. We're looking for the support of all parties to help encourage the Canadian government to take those steps.
1:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Michael Levitt
Thank you very much.
I want to thank you both for being here. I think we had a full and active engagement on this issue with you today. Again I recognize the visit next week of the Canada-Ukraine Parliamentary Friendship Group.
With it being two o'clock, we will adjourn. Have a good weekend, everyone.
The meeting is adjourned.