Evidence of meeting #159 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was syria.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Anas Al-Kassem  Board Member, Union of Medical Relief Organizations-Canada
Miles Windsor  Advocacy and Development Manager, Middle East Concern
Scott Morgan  As an Individual
Tity Agbahey  Campaigner for Central Africa, Amnesty International

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anita Vandenbeld

We'll begin our meeting today.

On our briefing on the human rights situation in Syria, we have two witnesses who are coming to us by video conference.

From Simcoe, Ontario, we have Anas Al-Kassem. He is a Syrian Canadian doctor who managed a medical team on the ground in Aleppo. He is co-founder of the Union of Medical Care and Relief Organizations and chair of the union of Syrian relief organizations Canada.

Also by video conference from Surrey, England, we have Miles Windsor who is the advocacy and development manager at Middle East Concern, which is a collective of Christian organizations that monitors persecution and discrimination against Christians in the Middle East and north Africa.

Welcome to the committee.

We will begin with Mr. Al-Kassem, for 10 minutes. We'll go to questions after the two witnesses.

Thank you.

12:05 p.m.

Dr. Anas Al-Kassem Board Member, Union of Medical Relief Organizations-Canada

Thank you very much for having me. Thank you to the subcommittee on international human rights for this opportunity today to bear witness again for what is going on in Syria. I would like to thank MP Iqra Khalid in particular for the invitation.

I will just give a summary of the humanitarian situation on the ground in the last month since the operation started on April 28, 2019, by the Syrian regime and the allies, particularly the Russian air forces.

The military escalation, targeting many villages and towns in northern Hama and southern Idlib, has caused a big influx of internally displaced people. About 425,000 refugees are trying to reach the Turkish border and are spreading all over the northern villages and camps. The continuity of displacement and the huge number of internally displaced people has caused a state of instability for the humanitarian situation—particularly for organizations like ours, the Union of Medical Care and Relief, and other humanitarian organizations—due to the incapability to deal with these influxes of refugees and displaced people and the lack of medical supplies, medical aids and shelters.

I've been to Syria on several medical missions before, including to Aleppo. We helped the medical crews on the ground and we helped to set up the largest hospital, Bab al-Hawa, at the border.

I'm more concerned at the current time, as I feel that the Syrian regime and the allies, including Russian allies, are using the policy of burned land. They have intensified operations, shelling the towns and villages over large areas—not just one city as in the example of Aleppo and the Damascus suburbs.

The concern is that many of the people living in these villages have already been displaced from other areas in southern Damascus, Idlib and Aleppo.

Unfortunately, in the last month or so, 24 medical facilities were targeted. There was a suspension of 40 other facilities due to the fears of being targeted as well. We lost 12 medical aid and humanitarian workers in the last month. Unfortunately, just last week, four family members of one our mobile clinic drivers died. It is really terrifying to see the pictures of his kids being burned, including twin girls and an eight-year-old boy. I'm sure some of you have seen the horrifying picture of a young boy being burned completely and killed with phosphorus gas, which is forbidden by international law.

In the last month, about 400 civilians have died. We documented that more than 50% were women and children, including more than 165 children. That tells you about the discriminating nature of the air forces being used against civilians.

I'd like to take this opportunity to ask the Canadian government to deploy extra funds to help the medical relief workers on the ground—the humanitarian workers—since we have a severe shortage of medical supplies in northern hospitals, which are still operating. There are only a few hospitals and medical facilities still operating and we need significant supplies. It is crucially important for saving lives, particularly for the children and women being targeted in the civilian areas.

Thank you very much.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anita Vandenbeld

Thank you very much.

We will now go to Mr. Windsor, for up to 10 minutes as well.

June 13th, 2019 / 12:10 p.m.

Miles Windsor Advocacy and Development Manager, Middle East Concern

Thank you for inviting me to provide evidence at this hearing. We're grateful for the opportunity.

By way of introduction, my organization, Middle East Concern, is an association that was established in 1991 in response to needs expressed by Christian leaders in the Middle East and north Africa region. MEC's member organizations and member individuals include Christians living and working in all 24 countries and territories covered by MEC.

MEC provides support to Christians in the MENA region who are persecuted on account of their faith, either for being or choosing to become Christian. MEC assists individual victims of religious persecution; challenges unjust laws, policies and attitudes; and equips Christians to prepare for, mitigate and respond to persecution.

We collaborate expansively with our networks of individuals and organizations in the MENA region and globally to provide the support and assistance required in any given situation.

Regarding the circumstances of Christians in government-controlled areas of Syria, most of Syria's Christians belong to historical Orthodox and Catholic churches, and in addition, there are some traditional Protestant churches. These communities are primarily found in areas of Syria controlled by President Assad's regime. They have generally enjoyed reasonable standing in society. For example, the current speaker of Syria's parliament is an Orthodox Christian. However, Christians have been affected by the ongoing conflict and economic hardship as much as anyone else.

Church leaders overwhelmingly express support for President Assad's regime, at least in public. There are several reasons for this, including that the Assad regime has traditionally granted significant freedoms to Christians; the fact that even if Christian communities don't endorse all that the Assad regime stands for, they fear that any alternative regime would be very much more hostile to Christians; and some church leaders are exercising some self-interest in publicly stating support for the regime, as they rely on the patronage of the regime.

As Assad consolidates his position, Christians are among those concerned that he is making concessions to Islamists. In particular, there were concerns around the introduction of what's known as “law 16” in September 2018, which was purportedly designed to combat extremist ideology while promoting moderation. This law proposed significant expansion of the powers of the ministry of religious endowments, the Awqaf ministry, at the expense of other ministries and public institutions. The proposals were criticised, including within otherwise loyalist circles, on the grounds that increased power of Sunni religious authorities would hand greater influence to Islamists, and in turn, threaten the secular nature and culture of the Syrian state.

An unprecedented outcry led to some modification of the proposals. However, the final version, which is known as “law 31”, still bolsters the power of the ministry of religious endowments. Some church leaders are worried that churches will face increased obstacles and bureaucratic procedures because of this law.

Some have provided other examples of the ways in which Christians suffer a degree of marginalization under the Assad regime. For example, we have received claims that Christian soldiers within the Syrian army are given more dangerous postings or duties, or that Christian civil servants have received more inferior treatment than others.

In those areas that are still under Islamist control, principally in Idlib province, the Christian presence is very small, not least because of outward migration in earlier stages of the conflict following a number of attacks on church buildings in Christian communities. Only very small numbers of Christians remain, and among those who are left, there has been no move towards return, primarily because of the security situation but also because of fears that the dominant controlling militant groups, especially Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, continue to impose a strict Islamist agenda.

In Afrin, Christians who are amongst the thousands displaced by Turkish-backed militias in early 2018 have reported the desecration of church buildings and appropriation of buildings belonging to Christians, though such claims are also made by others among the thousands, most of them Kurds, who have been displaced. It is claimed that the controlling factions have facilitated a program of demographic engineering by settling Sunni IDPs from other parts of Syria in properties abandoned by Kurds and Christians.

Although Daesh, otherwise known as the Islamic State, has been defeated militarily, there are fears that violence inspired by Daesh ideology could still erupt and that minority religious communities could be vulnerable to such violence, as demonstrated by atrocities against Druze communities in July 2018 in Sweida, for which Daesh claimed responsibility.

The predominantly Kurdish areas of northeast Syria include sizable Assyrian and Syriac Christian communities. Recent political developments have been of concern to some within these communities—in particular, the imposition of a Kurdish political agenda and an intensifying standoff with Damascus as Kurdish demands for significant autonomy are rebuffed by President Assad.

Christian communities, though appreciative of the greater degree of pluralism typically permitted by the Kurdish administration, resent a renewed drive to assert Kurdish identity, demonstrated, for example, in church leaders' objections to the imposition of a new Kurdish curriculum on all schools in the region, including church schools, in 2018. The appeals of Syrian church leaders are broader than simply for their own communities. They make a compelling argument that the preservation of Syria's ethnic and religious diversity through consolidating pluralism is vital for the benefit of all communities.

It should be noted that calls for pluralism go beyond appeals for peaceable intercommunal coexistence. There remains a strong social taboo on religious conversion in Syria, reinforced by personal status laws, especially for those who choose to convert from Islam to Christianity or indeed any other religion. This is in contravention of internationally agreed standards for freedom of religion or belief, which hold that there must be freedom to change one's religion.

If the international community has any sway over the reconstruction of Syria, we would request that they work to ensure that the current and future legal frameworks in Syria fully promote and protect the equal and inalienable rights of all their citizens, irrespective of race, religion or other status; to ensure the dignified and continued improvement of living conditions for all citizens, but especially for returning refugees and the internally displaced, including through the provision of adequate housing, education and jobs; and that they would equip religious leaders and faith-based organizations to play a constructive and central role in reconciling and rebuilding Syrian society.

I'll close with a quote from a spokesman for the Antiochian Orthodox patriarchate. He has said:

We have to...find a peaceful solution in the country. The displaced and refugees should be able to return. The current situation has to come to an end, and we must find ways to motivate people to reconcile and heal together.

Thank you.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anita Vandenbeld

Thank you very much to both of you for your testimony.

We will start with Mr. Sweet for seven minutes of questions.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

Thank you very much, Chair.

I'd like to thank both witnesses for their efforts—although much different—to save lives and help the persecuted.

My first question I'd like to ask of Mr. Al-Kassem.

It's my understanding that most of the medical facilities were underground and revealed their locations to the United Nations. This was under the premise that there was going to be some deconfliction process, and then they ended up being shared with Moscow and Damascus and were targeted.

I don't know when the last time was that you were there, but how has this affected those people who are in the medical missions there now, knowing that they're targeted and that one of the groups they trusted is.... I'm certain that they feel very betrayed, but how has it impacted their spirit in staying with the battle?

12:20 p.m.

Board Member, Union of Medical Relief Organizations-Canada

Dr. Anas Al-Kassem

Thank you very much for the question.

I've been, as I've mentioned before, in Syria on many missions, including Aleppo during the intense air strikes there in 2015-16. In fact, most of the hospitals are regular buildings but we operate in the basement, so they're not really underground. Most of the time we don't dare use the upper levels because of the very high risk of being bombarded by air strikes, particularly the very advanced Russian air strikes now, as opposed to 2015, or before, where Assad air strikes were predominately bombarding the buildings.

We did share, actually, our locations with the Russians and the Turkish and the UN. Unfortunately, three recently shared locations were bombarded by Russian air strikes recently.

For the 24 medical facilities—you're right—we shared their locations and we got some reassurances by the UN and by OCHA in Gaziantep that if we shared these locations with them, they'd communicate that to the Russians to ensure they were not going to be bombarded, but there was no respect at all.

To be honest with you, when I communicate to the medical staff on the ground, they have no trust whatsoever in the international community.

Going back to my colleague's point, having no trust in the international community and the promises will aggravate more violence and more extremism in northern Syria, which we have never witnessed before, because now they're saying the international community is helping Assad and Russia. It's not helping them—I'm talking about the medical aid workers and civilians. So the other groups see this as an opportunity to inherit them, to convince them to be part of the Daesh, the Hayat Nusra and all these extreme groups. That's a big concern.

There has been discrimination against all kinds of civilians, not only Christians. The Sunnis, the Kurds and all kinds of populations and ethnic groups in Syria have been targeted by the Syrian regime and the Russian allies. That's a big concern for us. Unfortunately, we have communicated our concerns to UN and WHO several times, but there was no respect by the Russian air forces.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

I want to affirm one thing that you said earlier. I was on the Jordanian-Syrian border in 2014 and we welcomed 700 refugees at the time, and the vast majority of them had been bombed out of places three or four times. They'd been bombed out of their own house and then gone to a friend's or an uncle's or an aunt's, and then were bombed there. Many of them had walked their own shoes off just trying to get to safety.

Are Jordan and Lebanon still open for these displaced people or have they started to mitigate the number of refugees they accept?

12:20 p.m.

Board Member, Union of Medical Relief Organizations-Canada

Dr. Anas Al-Kassem

Definitely Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and even Turkey now have closed their borders. They have one million refugees each for Jordan and Lebanon, and over three million refugees in Turkey. None of these countries are interested in taking any more refugees.

That's why I'm very concerned. I've been in Aleppo. I've been in Hama and Idlib before, but at least the borders were open at that time, so people would seek refuge in Turkey and then in Europe and Canada, eventually. At the current time, the borders are closed and every single country made it clear that they cannot take any more responsibility for refugees. That's a big concern for these villages and towns being wiped out at the current time.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

Mr. Chair, Mr. Anderson will take the rest of the time.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Thank you.

Thanks to both of our witnesses for being here today.

Doctor, I'd just like to ask you this. Some of the strongholds have been taken back over time by Assad's government and it's meant imprisonment for a lot of people. I'm just wondering. You have about two and a half million people, I think, in the Idlib area. It sounds like over a million of them have moved there from other places.

Both of you as witnesses have talked about that movement of the population, the disruption that it brings. What is the situation there? How long do you expect the opposition to be able to hold out? Is this something that will be long term? Will it be like some of the other places that we've talked about at this committee? They were in opposition when we talked to them but then, within a matter of a month or so, were taken over by the Assad government.

I'm just wondering if you can give us an update on that situation.

12:25 p.m.

Board Member, Union of Medical Relief Organizations-Canada

Dr. Anas Al-Kassem

You're right. There's a population of more than 2.5 million now in Idlib, which previously had, before the war, about one million. In Idlib city itself, there's a population of one million. Many of these people already were, as you mentioned, displaced from other areas. Some of them have been displaced two or three times, and for some this is their third or fourth time being displaced. Imagine that kind of displacement. It's horrible. It's never been seen in history before, I guess.

Currently our data shows there are now more than 425,000 new internally displaced people coming out of their villages and towns due to these intense air strikes, but they've been pushed to the northern area and some of them to the city of Idlib. Our concern for the city of Idlib itself, with a population of one million, is that if it's going to be targeted by the air strikes, then we will witness probably the largest humanitarian crisis since the beginning of the war. Our concern is that the hospitals at the border are still operating, but we cannot really deal with a big influx of injuries if they target the city of Idlib.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anita Vandenbeld

Thank you very much. That's your time.

We'll now go to Ms. Khalid for seven minutes.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to both witnesses, Dr. Al-Kassem and also Mr. Windsor, for your time and for your advocacy on saving so many lives in Syria.

Dr. Anas, I'll start with you if that's okay. You spoke in your testimony about chemical weapons being used. You also mentioned data. Are you collecting data as well? I know that is really not the mandate of your organization on the ground. You are providing humanitarian aid and medical relief, but are you also collecting it and identifying and just making notes on what is happening on the ground to be used later on perhaps in the international community?

12:25 p.m.

Board Member, Union of Medical Relief Organizations-Canada

Dr. Anas Al-Kassem

Yes. Thank you very much.

We're medical workers, as you mentioned, Iqra. We're physicians, at the end of the day, but we were forced to collect data particularly with regard to chemical weapons. We have medical staff on the ground. They receive the injuries. We know the symptoms and the science.

For instance, a week ago roughly, we confirmed, clinically at least, that chlorine gas had been used. The symptoms are very clear to us now after six or seven years of repeated use of this kind of gas. Phosphorous gas was used as well. At least clinically we could confirm that, given the severe burns and injuries that happened a week ago as well in one of the villages.

We're still waiting for the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to confirm that. We are sharing the specimens with them, so that may take some time. Certainly there is clinical evidence of the repeated use of chlorine gas and phosphorous gas.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Thank you.

Are there other organizations providing humanitarian aid on the ground that you are currently partnering with, that are helping you through this process?

12:25 p.m.

Board Member, Union of Medical Relief Organizations-Canada

Dr. Anas Al-Kassem

Yes.

We have the Syrian American Medical Society, which has been a big partner for us. We've been communicating with the WHO as well. They are not operating facilities on the ground, but they do supply us with medical supplies and we're sharing the data with them as well.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Thank you.

It's really unfortunate that so many hundreds and thousands of people are displaced with nowhere to go, it seems, with borders closing.

I'll ask you this first, Dr. Anas, and then I'll turn to Mr. Windsor as well. What's next? What do you envision in the short term for Syria as well as in the long term?

12:25 p.m.

Board Member, Union of Medical Relief Organizations-Canada

Dr. Anas Al-Kassem

I'd like to see the international community and the Canadian government stand up. First of all, we need to raise emergency funds for the medical aid and the medical supplies. We have a shortage of at least half a million dollars in terms of medical supplies, particularly for the mobile clinics. In many villages and towns we have no access to them. We have no physicians or nurses on the ground anymore, so the mobile clinics are a great solution. We have been operating many mobile clinics in northern Syria. We really need emergency funds for these mobile clinics.

We need to ensure that the international community and particularly Canada ensure that cross-border and cross-line humanitarian access through Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey is maintained, particularly since massive operations are now being carried out in Idlib, which is close to the Turkish border.

We need to urge the leaders from the Istanbul summit between France, Germany, Russia and Turkey to uphold their commitment to maintain the ceasefire in Idlib, as they promised to do, and to stop the systematic attacks on hospitals and schools. Ten schools have been attacked since April 28. As I mentioned, there were also many medical facilities, including 24 that were completely destroyed and that are out of service for now.

This is what we envision as a quick solution for the coming few weeks. For the long term we hope that we can find a political solution. We see Assad, Daesh and Nusra as being very dangerous. They have committed, certainly, war crimes against humanity.

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Thank you.

Mr. Windsor, would you like to comment on that as well?

12:30 p.m.

Advocacy and Development Manager, Middle East Concern

Miles Windsor

Partly I need to say that I concur with the doctor, who spoke very eloquently to that situation. Obviously it's vital that those humanitarian access routes be open and also that the diplomatic process continue and that there are redoubled efforts to resolve this conflict because of the humanitarian crisis that's been going on for so long now.

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Thank you.

Dr. Anas, you spoke about the political solution, how we get rid of the threats to humanity within that region. You mentioned Daesh and the Assad regime.

Are there any other political players within that region that are inhibiting a long-term solution?

12:30 p.m.

Board Member, Union of Medical Relief Organizations-Canada

Dr. Anas Al-Kassem

I think Turkey and Russia are the main players currently because they have troops on the ground and they have military bases. I would like to see more engagement with Turkey and Russia from the international community, including Canada, to hold them accountable for their promises before and for their commitment to the ceasefire and to work with them to honour their commitments to the so-called demilitarized zone agreement, which was signed back in September 2018. I think it's very crucial to engage more with Russia and Turkey because without these two major players in the area, I don't think we're going to achieve a political solution.

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Thank you.

My last question is to you, Doctor. I understand that you lost some Canadians who had gone to volunteer and to provide medical relief in Syria. How are you providing safety and security for the people who are working with your organization on the ground, providing relief?

12:30 p.m.

Board Member, Union of Medical Relief Organizations-Canada

Dr. Anas Al-Kassem

As I mentioned before, unfortunately even sharing the locations of these hospitals hasn't been very fruitful in the past, so we currently work only at the border. We try not to send our crews to the villages and towns under attack, but just to go to the camps where it's reasonably safe and haven't been under attack in the last few weeks. The major hub for us is right at the border and we hope that at least this hospital won't be bombed.