Evidence of meeting #88 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was labour.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Aidan McQuade  Special Advisor, Former Director, Anti-Slavery International
Jo Becker  Advocacy Director, Children's Rights, Human Rights Watch

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative David Sweet

I call the meeting to order.

Colleagues, welcome to the 88th meeting for the Subcommittee on International Human Rights, which is a subcommittee of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development. We're here studying child labour and modern slavery.

We have two witnesses who will be on teleconference. One is Jo Becker, who's from Human Rights Watch. She's the advocacy director. We also have Aidan McQuade, who's a special adviser for Anti-Slavery International.

My understanding is that we'll have Mr. McQuade on shortly.

1:05 p.m.

Dr. Aidan McQuade Special Advisor, Former Director, Anti-Slavery International

I'm here already.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative David Sweet

Great.

Mr. McQuade, would you begin your remarks, please?

1:05 p.m.

Special Advisor, Former Director, Anti-Slavery International

Dr. Aidan McQuade

The challenge to eliminating child labour and forced labour I think is captured by the number 5.5 million. If you look at the 2005 forced labour estimates, the estimate of child slavery in the world was 5.5 million. In 2012, that number was 5.5 million. In 2017, the number has risen to about 10 million, because forced child marriage was finally recognized as being a form of child slavery as well.

The reason I refer to this number is that during this time period, we've seen a significant decline in the number of children in child labour in the world, including its worst forms, but no impact on the number of children in slavery, which suggests that there has been no impact whatsoever on the number of people in slavery.

In spite of many fine words and some fine action in relation to the broader question of child labour, we're not seeing any progress whatsoever in the issue of slavery. This suggests that we need to rethink, quite fundamentally, how we're doing some very big things, starting with international trade, and working our way down to the way in which we practise development, humanitarian response, and particularly education.

I think I'll leave it at that, and we can discuss it further as we're going along.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative David Sweet

Thank you very much, Mr. McQuade.

We'll move on to Jo Becker now, from Human Rights Watch.

1:05 p.m.

Jo Becker Advocacy Director, Children's Rights, Human Rights Watch

Good afternoon.

Thanks very much for the opportunity to speak with you today to discuss child and forced labour in global supply chains. We really welcome the Government of Canada's interest in taking further action to address these abuses.

Today I thought I would give you a brief overview of the research that Human Rights Watch has done on child and forced labour, our assessment of the current state of standards and legislation related to supply chains and human rights, and then also provide a few recommendations for the Canadian government as you consider your course of action.

First of all, Human Rights Watch has conducted research on child and forced labour in global supply chains for over two decades. We've interviewed thousands of workers, employers, government officials, and other affected individuals in the context of global supply chains in agriculture, the garment and footwear industry, fishing, mining, and construction.

I'll start with our work on child labour. We have documented hazardous child labour associated with a range of crops and products that are sold on the international market, including sugar cane from El Salvador, bananas from Ecuador, cotton from Egypt and Uzbekistan, and fruits and vegetables from the United States and from Israel.

We found children working very gruelling hours with sharp tools and heavy machinery. We found they were exposed to toxic pesticides and extreme heat. Of course, agriculture is one of the most hazardous sectors of work for children, and it involves 70% of the children who are currently engaged in child labour worldwide.

In recent years, Human Rights Watch has also focused on hazardous child labour in the tobacco sector. We have conducted research in the United States, Indonesia, and Zimbabwe, where children face added risk of nicotine poisoning because of their exposure to the tobacco plants. The majority of the children we interviewed experienced nausea, vomiting, headaches, and dizziness. These are all symptoms that are consistent with acute nicotine poisoning. The tobacco these children are cultivating and harvesting enters the supply chain of major cigarette manufacturers that sell their products all over the world.

An estimated one million children also work in mining, which is another very hazardous form of child labour. Human Rights Watch has documented child labour in small-scale gold mining in Ghana, the Philippines, Tanzania, and Mali.

One of the most serious concerns we found is that children often process gold with mercury, a highly toxic substance that can cause brain damage and other lifelong health conditions. They also risk their lives when they climb down unstable shafts that may collapse at any moment. Most of the gold they mine is used for the international jewellery market, which generates $300 billion a year in revenues.

On forced labour, since 2016, Human Rights Watch has interviewed nearly 250 current and former workers in Thailand's fishing industry, and we found that many of them described forced labour situations. Some workers found their employment voluntarily, but then, once they were on the fishing boats, they were not allowed to leave and were held in forced labour. We documented deception regarding the terms of their employment, the seizure of identity documents, inability to change employers, recruitment fees that often placed the workers into debt bondage, and excessive work hours that often exceeded 18 hours a day and in a few cases went as high as 23 hours a day. We found unlawful wage withholding systems that required workers to put in six months or even up to two years of work before they would receive their salary in a lump sum.

We've also documented forced labour in large-scale construction and engineering projects in the Middle East, including Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, and other Gulf States. We found that many of these construction workers are migrants who are often tied to abusive employers through the kafala, or sponsorship system. Their passports are often systematically confiscated, and many workers are charged with extortionate recruitment fees that create crushing debts that they have to pay off.

Finally, we have also documented abusive labour practices in the apparel industry, particularly in Bangladesh and Cambodia. We have documented how many apparel workers experience forced overtime.

In Cambodia, we found that workers who refused to work overtime were often dismissed, faced reductions in their wages, or were subjected to punitive transfers. The majority of the women whom we talked to in these factories were working far in excess of 60 hours a week. In Bangladesh, we interviewed more than 160 workers from 44 different factories. Most of them were making garments for retail companies in North America, Europe, and Australia. We found that workers reported physical assault, verbal abuse, forced overtime, and failure to pay wages and bonuses.

That gives you a sense of our research. Now I want to address briefly our assessment of current standards and legislation related to supply chains and these human rights abuses.

International norms such as the UN Guiding Principles on Business and Human Rights recognize that companies should undertake human rights due diligence to ensure that their operations respect human rights and do not contribute to human rights abuses, but these international standards are generally not legally binding. As a consequence, we've found in our work that some companies take them seriously, but many do not.

As we work with companies, whether they're construction firms, multinational tobacco or garment companies, or jewellery retailers, we find a number of common problems. These include weak human rights policies, insufficient assessment and monitoring of risks in their supply chains, weaknesses in preventing or mitigating human rights abuses, insufficient monitoring, and lack of public reporting on the steps they're taking to address these abuses.

As part of my own work at Human Rights Watch, for the last number of years I've been particularly engaging with multinational tobacco and jewellery companies to look at their supply chains. In that context, we've also looked at industry-led initiatives to try to address child labour and other human rights abuses. What we've seen is that some of them are meaningful, but many are not. Just by coincidence, this morning I was meeting with the executives of a major multinational tobacco company. During our meeting, one of the executives said he could get a certificate on anything today. He could pay off his guilt, but it doesn't mean anything. I think this speaks very clearly to the challenges of industries policing themselves when it comes to addressing human rights abuses.

Ultimately, the primary responsibility for upholding human rights lies with governments. We've seen that when states impose mandatory human rights due diligence, company transparency has improved. Some of the existing models include the Dodd-Frank act in the United States, the U.K. Modern Slavery Act, the French due diligence law, and the transparency act in California. Of course other countries, such as the Netherlands and Australia, have also been considering legislation.

We find some limitations with existing laws. Some, for example, focus on very narrow thematic issues—just slavery and human trafficking or just conflict minerals—but will exclude other important human rights and labour issues. Some of these laws have no penalties for non-compliance. For example, in the U.K., NGOs have found that only about 14% of the companies that have submitted reports under the Modern Slavery Act have complied with basic reporting requirements, but the law carries no penalties for this non-compliance. In contrast, the French due diligence law includes a provision for injunctive relief if companies do not comply with their due diligence, and this is a positive model. Finally, some of the laws apply only to companies with revenues over a certain threshold. For example, the U.K. Modern Slavery Act applies only to companies with an annual turnover of more than 36 million pounds, and the proposed law under consideration in Australia sets an even higher threshold of $100 million Australian.

With all of this as a backdrop, we certainly welcome Canada's interest in looking more closely at these issues, and we would encourage the Canadian government to introduce legislation that would require companies, both headquartered in Canada and doing business in Canada, to address forced and child labour and other human rights abuses in their supply chain.

From our point of view, such legislation could have four key components.

One, it would require transparency, including identifying and publishing the entities along the supply chain.

Two, it would require mandatory due diligence, including steps to identify, prevent, mitigate, and remedy instances of child and forced labour, and to also publicly report on these efforts in a way that is comprehensible to the public.

The third component, as I mentioned before, would be to include legal consequences, including penalties, for companies that do not comply.

Fourth, such legislation should be accompanied by an adequate budget and infrastructure to enable public reporting on the law's implementation.

Finally, we'd also encourage the Canadian government to consider legislation that would prohibit the import of any goods that are produced or manufactured using forced labour, slave labour, child labour, or labour of persons who have been trafficked. In the United States, for example, there is legislation of this kind that has been used to block the import of goods made using forced labour in China.

As part of its enforcement, Canada should report publicly on the goods that are banned from Canada because of forced or child labour, outline the specific problems in the countries where the goods are produced, and communicate with those countries and relevant businesses the steps they need to take to address these human rights abuses.

Again, thank you very much for the opportunity to meet with you today. I very much look forward to your questions and dialogue.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative David Sweet

Thank you very much, Madam Becker.

We'll begin our rounds of questions now.

I'll check if Mr. Reid is ready to go ahead with the first round of questions.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

Sure.

First, how long are the rounds? It's been so long since I was here.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative David Sweet

It's seven minutes for the first round.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

Mr. Chair, normally you're not in the chair. Normally you'd be doing the questions on behalf of the Conservative Party. I know that you may have to leave, so I want to ask if you have any questions that you would want to ask.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative David Sweet

Yes, I can go ahead with one, Mr. Reid, and then you can carry on from there.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

Why don't we do that, then?

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative David Sweet

Mr. McQuade, you had mentioned some numbers that were a little disheartening in the sense of the growing number in child labour and forced slavery. You had explained that now forced marriage is included in the number.

Are there any models, with any countries, whereby we're winning, or any models, as was mentioned earlier by Ms. Becker, in which companies are taking action and doing the right thing and actually reducing child labour and forced labour, in any marketplace?

1:20 p.m.

Special Advisor, Former Director, Anti-Slavery International

Dr. Aidan McQuade

I think where there is the most progress is in the chocolate sector. In significant part that's because in 2003 there was a film made by the British Channel 4 that exposed the issue of trafficking in forced child labour in Côte d'Ivoire in particular. This caused a significant shock through most of the chocolate brands across the world, many of which had roots within the Quaker movement and had a very strong social conscience as part of their business. Consequent to that, they set up the International Cocoa Initiative, which is an effort against child labour in cocoa and has on its board both corporations and trade unions. Also, most businesses now have their own initiatives that are trying to respond to the issue of child labour within the cocoa sector.

More recently there has been some comparable confrontation within the garment sector around the issue of forced child labour in garment manufacturing, as Jo referred to this in some of her evidence, but this is only a beginning. The garment sector is early in its approach towards dealing with these issues within its supply chain.

However, to go back to cocoa for a second, one of the most significant things is that many of the chocolate businesses have recognized explicitly and publicly that child labour, and to a lesser extent child slavery, is a major problem in their supply chain. Consequently, they've said that they're going to try to do something about it. Most other businesses are still in a state of denial.

Also, in dealing with the issues of child labour, many of the chocolate businesses have established what would essentially be the equivalent to community development approaches towards this. They're working with whole communities. They're working with a child-centred approach to try to build awareness amongst communities about the problems with child labour and the paths out of child labour for the whole family.

Most child labour occurs within a family context. That's one of the things that distinguishes it from child slavery. “Child slavery” is defined in the UN's supplementary slavery convention as the handing over of a child to a third party for the purposes of exploitation. Bearing that in mind, it's important to remember that when child labour is occurring within a family context, most families want to do right by their children. They just don't have that many options in terms of how to do the best by them. It's important to work with families, and indeed with whole communities, in order to reduce the causes of child labour.

One of the key causal factors of child labour is education, or the lack of it. Often schools are distant. Often the quality of education within those schools is very poor. Sometimes the treatment of children in the schools is very poor. Families sometimes don't send their children to school because they're terrified of the corporal punishment the children may receive. Many girls don't attend school, particularly in their teenage years, because there aren't safe, clean, and private sanitary facilities for them. These are all contributors to child labour. Families decide to keep their kids at home rather than send them to school because they don't see the benefit of education for them.

A significant approach against child labour has to be in relation to education, particularly improving the quality of and access to education, with a stronger component of vocational education and teaching of human rights, particularly girls' rights, in those education curricula. It's important to conceive of the laws that you're thinking about in conjunction with Canada's aid policy and aid strategies. I very much agree with Jo's proposal for the elements of a law dealing with supply chains, but that would be importantly complemented by an effective aid policy or strategy that looks very centrally at the issue of education and empowerment of kids as a means to reduce child labour within families and communities.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative David Sweet

Thank you very much, Mr. McQuade.

Mr. Reid, I'll put 30 seconds on your time next time; otherwise, you won't get any momentum with that.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

If I have 30 seconds, I will ask one question for people to think about and perhaps work into their future responses.

Ms. Becker, as we try to apply oversight, typically it occurs from outside the countries in question and occurs by means of sanctions that are imposed on those who, for example, would seek to have a new bond issue on a stock market but who have allowed their overseas operations to violate a human rights standard. It's a good idea, but I think the problem is that it tends to push the problem further down the supply chain.

I know you don't have time to answer that now, but if you are able to respond to that in your response to one of the other questions, I'd be interested in knowing how to resolve that problem.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative David Sweet

Thank you, Mr. Reid.

We're now going to Mr. Tabbara.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, witnesses, for your testimony.

My first question will be for Ms. Quade. It's about the U.K.'s Modern Slavery Act. I'm just going to read to you from an article that I have here, which was written shortly after the Modern Slavery Act was implemented in 2015. Part of the title is “Will it work?”. I'm just going to read a bit of it out to you:

Although the new provision will push slave labour higher up the agenda for businesses and help increase transparency, there are concerns that it will do little to force companies to properly investigate slavery in their supply chains.

That being said, you mentioned that in the agricultural sector, 70% of...child labour has been rampant there. With that article I just read, how can states properly tackle the issue of child labour and specifically in rural areas?

1:25 p.m.

Special Advisor, Former Director, Anti-Slavery International

Dr. Aidan McQuade

I'm sorry; is that question for me or for Jo?

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

It was intended for Ms. Quade. I'll get Ms. Quade to respond.

1:25 p.m.

An hon. member

It's Ms. Becker.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Oh, sorry.

1:25 p.m.

Special Advisor, Former Director, Anti-Slavery International

Dr. Aidan McQuade

It's Ms. Becker or Dr. McQuade.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

I'm sorry. I got them mixed up. I apologize.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative David Sweet

Ms. Becker, go ahead.