Evidence of meeting #16 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was core.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I completely agree with you.
Earlier, you called yourself a leader, but you don't think the ombudsperson should be given greater powers.
What, then, does being a leader mean?
8:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
No, what I was saying was that our association had developed a program that is now globally recognized. It's a program that we, in Canada, developed and that is now being adopted by other countries. It's recognized as the best in the world.
8:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Can you give us examples of results that have been achieved under the program?
8:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
The program has produced results here, in Canada.
8:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
The program is brand new internationally, being implemented only recently.
8:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
You don't have any results yet. That answers my question.
8:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
Outcomes will be published this year for Finland, the first country to adopt the program.
8:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Okay, great. Thank you, Mr. Gratton.
Ms. Dovgal, you said that coming from a democratic country was an obstacle for Canadian mining companies. You said it put them at a disadvantage as compared with competitors from totalitarian countries.
Did I get that right? That is what you said, if I'm not mistaken.
8:20 p.m.
Task Force For Real Jobs, Real Recovery
Companies in countries like Canada are held to much higher standards for regulatory performance. That's correct. With that comes uncertainty, complexity, risk; that's a fact of.... The more conditions you impose on companies in any regulatory requirement—
8:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
That is why, then, you don't want us to impose even stricter standards. You think that penalizes Canadian mining companies and gives the advantage to companies from countries that flout human rights. If I understand correctly, that is what you are saying.
8:20 p.m.
Task Force For Real Jobs, Real Recovery
I would say it's more about a concern in creating a power to compel that may create legal uncertainty and risk. We need to be cautious. That's not to say that scrutiny must not be applied, but uncertainty is the single greatest controllable impediment to the investment that we need for Canadian economic recovery.
8:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Do you mean to say that companies from totalitarian countries are better off because they are held to a lower standard?
Accordingly, we should not impose higher standards because doing so would penalize Canadian companies. That's what you are saying.
8:20 p.m.
Task Force For Real Jobs, Real Recovery
I don't think that's accurate. Generally speaking, yes, we have to compete on a global market with our products. We need to be cautious of the competitive advantages that we're gaining or losing when we impose conditions on our resource industries, but that doesn't mean our resource industries should not be held to standards. That's what CORE in its current iteration does.
8:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I see. Thank you.
Mr. Bautista, we have you with us, so I'd like to hear what you have to say. Members of the industry are here, so what do you want to say to them?
8:20 p.m.
International Network Coordinator, Kalikasan People's Network for the Environment
We are pro development. We are not against foreign investment. But if that foreign investment causes us more misery, poverty and environmental degradation, then we need to resist—we have no choice—the kind of destructive operations like those we are experiencing from Canadian mining companies here in the Philippines. We have no choice but to defend the rights of our people and secure a clean, livable and just future for our next generation.
We would like the Canadian government to have a stronger ombudsperson, as I suggested, with the power to compel information from erring mining corporations, particularly in the Philippines, where the report of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights said there is a failure of local mechanisms. If you had the kinds of mechanisms where we could seek justice, where we could seek accountability, then it would be an open venue for us to correct the mistakes being made by such foreign corporations as OceanaGold and serve as an example for other mining companies.
8:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe.
We are moving to our final questioner.
Go ahead, MP McPherson, for seven minutes.
8:25 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today.
It has been a very interesting conversation today. I certainly don't agree with much of the testimony I've heard, and I have lots of questions. I want to start with Mr. Bautista, simply because he is representing an impacted community and I find that we are not hearing enough about the impacts of Canadian mining companies on impacted communities.
Mr. Bautista, one thing you spoke about is that when you ran into issues with a Canadian mining company, you went to the Canadian embassy. You tried to get their help but weren't able to get the support that you were hoping for.
Can you tell us a bit more about that? Maybe you could talk about the support you'd like to see from the Canadian government.
8:25 p.m.
International Network Coordinator, Kalikasan People's Network for the Environment
We tried to seek redress or support from the Canadian embassy because in our experience, particularly in Nueva Vizcaya where OceanaGold is operating, some of our local organizations and members of these organizations are being red-tagged. We know there are policy guidelines called “Voices at Risk”, so the embassy could at least investigate and give support, but we did not get that. Worse, we were asked for information, right to our faces, about whether we or our local partners are a front for private organizations.
We have had other experiences with the international community in the Philippines. When we are threatened, they visit our office to prove our legality and legitimacy. However, sadly, in our experience with the Canadian embassy here, we didn't get that.
8:25 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
What I'm hearing is there was an awful lot of scrutiny about whether or not you were representing a community and whatnot. We've heard from other witnesses today that scrutiny is the biggest impediment to the sector.
Can you talk about how you feel about that? Should the sector feel that scrutiny is in fact the biggest impediment to its success?
8:25 p.m.
International Network Coordinator, Kalikasan People's Network for the Environment
I do not understand the concept of scrutiny, sorry.
8:25 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
It's about looking at their operations and examining what's happening on the ground.
8:25 p.m.
International Network Coordinator, Kalikasan People's Network for the Environment
No, of course not. We think the mining laws in the Philippines very much favour the foreign investors. It's stated in our law that foreign investment is critical in our development, so they get a lot of privileges.
As for scrutiny, or looking at their operations, there's a lack of transparency, and we need it for us to assert what should be done correctly on the ground. This is not true on our side.