Evidence of meeting #16 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ethiopian.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Goitom Gebreluel  Postdoctoral Fellow, Yale University, As an Individual
Ian Spears  Associate Professor of Political Science, University of Guelph, As an Individual
Hayelom Mekonen  Postdoctoral Research Fellow, University of Maryland, As an Individual
Sarah Teich  International Human Rights Lawyer, United Tegaru Canada

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi

That is for any of the witnesses, unless you want to direct it specifically.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

I'd like to hear from both of them.

10:10 a.m.

International Human Rights Lawyer, United Tegaru Canada

Sarah Teich

I guess I'll jump into that first.

When it comes to recognition of genocide and the political aspects, I would encourage this committee to approach genocide with the legal test, because, at the end of the day, genocide is a crime with a very precise legal definition. If that definition fits, there's value, as we heard earlier this morning, in calling a spade a spade. Among other things, it's a clear recognition that Canada is obliged to act to prevent genocide under the genocide convention.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Just to respond to that a bit, my concern is that if Canada recognizes the genocide, the reaction.... I don't like to throw that word around quickly, but when we do, we should do something about it.

If a government is participating in genocide, any aid we're giving that government should cease immediately. You'd probably agree with that. That is then putting our thumb on the scales dramatically in this political conflict that is happening, and there is interest from the Tigrayans for that to happen.

How do we balance that? Say we recognize it, but then how do we balance it so that the Tigrayans don't turn around and start attacking in the other direction, essentially?

10:10 a.m.

International Human Rights Lawyer, United Tegaru Canada

Sarah Teich

That's a good question. Someone mentioned this earlier in the first panel. I think the key is that we don't want to appease current leadership for fear of something that may happen in the future.

I would also note that, in terms of Canada's obligation to act, even if we don't go ahead, even if the government doesn't call it genocide, the Government of Canada, in my opinion, would still be obligated to take certain actions to prevent it, because the obligations don't arise just when Canada calls it a genocide. The obligations actually arise as soon as a state party to the genocide convention knows or should know that there is a serious risk of genocide; that's from the International Court of Justice case in 2007 on Serbia and Bosnia.

In terms of the effect, I'm not sure that takes anything away from this. On the flip side, if Canada does recognize the genocide and then the TPLF goes ahead and commits its own atrocity crimes, nothing would be stopping Canada from recognizing those atrocity crimes at that point.

Does that answer the question?

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Yes. It's not the atrocity; it's the political conflict that we're having. Each side is accusing the other of atrocities, and I don't doubt they're happening. It's just.... How do we isolate the human rights from the political, essentially? I'd like to hear from the doctor on this.

10:15 a.m.

Postdoctoral Research Fellow, University of Maryland, As an Individual

Dr. Hayelom Mekonen

I think I'll echo her response. In my view, Canada should stand by its own moral obligation. That's the bottom line. Canada should not just move to appease the government or Tigrayans. It just has to stand on its own moral obligation, so they can move, anyway.

What matters is not political; what matters is the human rights violations, in my view. I know human rights [Inaudible—Editor] a political or an ideological view, but in Canada, at least, the interest is more in human rights. That can be the goal, when it just stands with its moral obligation.

Is it really happening, or is it not really happening? If it is really happening, they should say something. They just have to make.... I believe they have very good leverage on the central government of Addis. They have to use all the leverage they have in their hand. So far, Canada has been quite reluctant to go ahead and face the government of Addis on these human rights, even in statements that some of the major western countries have tried to make.

What matters is moral. It's not—

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi

Thank you, Dr. Mekonen.

We're going to continue on to our second questioner, Mr. Sidhu, for five minutes.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, thank you to the witnesses for taking the time to be with us here on this Friday morning.

Dr. Mekonen, thank you for your continued strength, and for sharing those gruesome and horrifying experiences. I definitely know that we are greatly concerned about the ongoing reports of human rights abuses and the obstruction of humanitarian access. I also understand the Government of Canada has provided roughly $40 million in humanitarian funding to help support those most in need in Ethiopia.

Hearing the stories from you, first-hand, and given your experience and insights.... I'd like to hear more. Can you speak to the ongoing work, at the regional level, to find a peaceful solution to this situation?

10:15 a.m.

Postdoctoral Research Fellow, University of Maryland, As an Individual

Dr. Hayelom Mekonen

Thank you very much.

What we have to do is.... The regional African Union, in my view, is not much of a guarantee for peace. Anyway, if we have to stick on that, the international actors like Canada, the European Union and the United States may have involvement—international or multilateral involvement—so that peace can come, at least, in a very short time.

In this case, what Canada can do is pressure the government to, at least, immediately declare a cessation of hostility. If there is a cessation of hostility declared, the Tigrayans also have to be pressured to abide by or accept that cessation of hostility. Because there are very aggressive wars going on now, and the destruction of many people.... Before the war—before November 2020—Tigray, especially in the health sector, was a model in the other parts of the region, but now more than 20% has been destroyed. What was left is now again being destroyed. What was left of the civilian population is again getting killed and raped.

The first thing Canada can do is pressure the government, at the moment, so a cessation of hostility can be declared immediately. This can also be, again, accepted by the Tigrayans or the Tigrayan or regional government.

The African Union by itself, alone.... I am not sure it can solve the problem, because the African Union is very close to the Addis regime. The other side or the other actor is usually complaining that it cannot solve the problem by itself. It needs Canada and other western countries to be involved.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON

Thank you.

Ms. Teich, I'd like to hear your views, as well.

10:20 a.m.

International Human Rights Lawyer, United Tegaru Canada

Sarah Teich

I would echo what the doctor said. The African Union has ceased to be a feasible option.

I would note that a Human Rights Watch report suggested a Security Council-led arms embargo. That's an option: using other, more international or multilateral institutions. Just last night, I read that the Security Council intends to meet on this issue shortly, so that could be an option.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON

Thank you.

I know that in November of last year, Minister Joly, our Minister of Foreign Affairs, spoke with His Excellency Moussa Faki Mahamat, chairman of the African Union Commission. During that conversation, Minister Joly emphasized Canada's profound alarm upon learning of the rapidly deteriorating situation in Tigray. Moreover, Minister Joly reiterated how essential it is to work toward a political solution and an inclusive national dialogue in order to ensure a peaceful resolution of the conflict.

I have less than a minute left.

Ms. Teich, can you speak to the latest developments in this political situation? I know you kind of did that in your opening remarks, but perhaps you can take some time now to express more on that.

10:20 a.m.

International Human Rights Lawyer, United Tegaru Canada

Sarah Teich

The issue with political solutions and negotiations.... There's actually one point I'd like to raise in my very short time, and that's the involvement of Eritrea in this process. I understand that at one point Eritrea was invited to the negotiating table. In my view, and in the view of the Government of Canada, that legitimizes inappropriately the role of Eritrea on the ground.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi

Thank you, Mr. Sidhu.

That was exactly within five minutes, masterfully done.

We'll now go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, please, for five minutes.

10:20 a.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I again want to thank the witnesses for being here today to take part in this study, which is of the utmost importance, especially to the Tigrayan community. Members of the community here, in Canada, are pushing the government to finally do something.

In our first panel, we heard from Mr. Mekonen, and we learned that there was significant evidence of a genocide being carried out in Tigray.

I have a question for Ms. Teich, whom I want to commend. I admire her work on a number of issues.

Ms. Teich, can you explain the difference between ethnic cleansing and genocide? The difference isn't obvious when you're not an expert. This is your area of expertise, after all.

10:20 a.m.

International Human Rights Lawyer, United Tegaru Canada

Sarah Teich

That's a great question.

Genocide is an international crime. It's an atrocity crime that's defined very clearly in the genocide convention and in the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. I've already gone through that definition in my opening remarks, so I won't repeat it.

Ethnic cleansing, on the other hand, is not an atrocity crime that's under the jurisdiction of the Rome Statue of the ICC. Its definition can, though, be gleaned from a UN commission of experts that was tasked with looking into crimes committed in the former Yugoslavia. That commission defined ethnic cleansing as “rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups from the area.” That same commission, in its final report, defined ethnic cleansing as “a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.” I know these two sentences are a bit of a mouthful, but essentially, that's ethnic cleansing.

Ethnic cleansing, in the context of Tigray, has been alleged and already supported with evidence by the likes of Human Rights Watch. It was also the subject of an internal U.S. government report, which found that Ethiopian officials were “deliberately and efficiently rendering Western Tigray ethnically homogeneous through the organized use of force and intimidation.” There was forced displacement and then repopulation of the regions.

10:20 a.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

My sincere thanks for that.

Earlier, you said that there was a risk of genocide or that a genocide was under way.

If I understood correctly, Canada's international obligations are the same either way.

Did I get that right?

10:25 a.m.

International Human Rights Lawyer, United Tegaru Canada

Sarah Teich

Yes, that's right. Under the genocide convention, state parties to the convention have an obligation to prevent genocide. Canada is a state party to the genocide convention—as is, interestingly enough, Ethiopia.

In the case of Bosnia and Serbia, which came out of the ICJ in 2007, the court clarified that the obligation doesn't arise when there is a full-scale genocide. It actually arises when there's a serious risk of genocide, which makes sense. If the obligation is to prevent, you can't.... Preventing a genocide that's already happening seems a little bit.... It defeats the purpose of the convention.

10:25 a.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

I understand that obligation, but I imagine that the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, which Canada is a party to, doesn't necessarily mention how to prevent genocide or punish the perpetrators.

Given Canada's obligations as a party to the convention, what actions should be taken to prevent this genocide, or risk of genocide, and punish the perpetrators?

10:25 a.m.

International Human Rights Lawyer, United Tegaru Canada

Sarah Teich

It's a great question. That's right. The genocide convention does not outline specific actions.

Essentially, Canada should be using all of the tools available at its disposal to prevent genocide. That can include targeted sanctions against Ethiopian and Eritrean forces for responsibility, including command responsibility, for the genocide. Anyone who's at the top in ordering it or failing to punish it can also be sanctioned under our Magnitsky laws or Special Economic Measures Act.

We can also use criminal prosecutions and removal of aid. There are definitely different levers that Canada can pull. There are also Canadian businesses in the region that could be encouraged to comply with their own human rights obligations.

I think I've run out of time.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi

You have 15 seconds.

10:25 a.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you very much.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi

We're going to continue to our last questioner for this first round. We'll have a second round.

We have Ms. McPherson for five minutes.