Evidence of meeting #18 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was haitian.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Patrick Auguste  Master in Business Administration, Université du Québec à Montréal, Association of Human Capital of Ethnocultural Youth of Tomorrow
Morgan Wienberg  Co-Founder and Executive Director, Little Footprints Big Steps
Chalmers LaRose  Lecturer, Department of Political Science, Université du Québec à Montréal; Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
Philippe Dieudonné  Master of Project Management, As an Individual
Chantale Ismé  Feminist Activist and Community Researcher, Coalition Haïtienne au Canada contre la dictature en Haiti

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Yes.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi

I ask for everyone's indulgence to continue for 15 minutes. We'll entertain questions and answers. Is that good with everybody?

9:55 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi

We're going to have a fast round. With the unanimous consent we have from everyone here, we will continue on for 15 minutes sharp. That gives everybody just under four minutes.

We're going to start with the Conservative Party. Mr. Viersen, you have four minutes, please.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Thank you.

Chantale, I'm not exactly clear on what your specific ask is. You don't want intervention, and yet we want to bring stability to the region. How do we do that? Is Canada uniquely qualified in some way around this?

10 a.m.

Feminist Activist and Community Researcher, Coalition Haïtienne au Canada contre la dictature en Haiti

Chantale Ismé

Thank you for your question.

If I've understood you correctly, you want to know what, concretely, I'm proposing, and whether Canada alone can come up with the solution I am putting forward. As I am addressing members of Parliament in Canada, I have been focusing on what Canada can do. Of course, others besides Canada can also play a role.

I'm suggesting respecting areas of expertise. Haiti is often described as a failed country. But there is expertise of various kinds in Haiti, even in matters of security. What's missing are the material and logistical resources. In terms of cooperation, what we're asking Canada to do is provide coaching, for example training a special force in the national police, accompanied by appropriate material and logistical resources.

Human rights education would also be required. People tend to forget that the police are also infringing human rights in Haiti. We therefore need this kind of training too.

I haven't come here to give you a diagnosis. That's already been done in Haiti by human rights organizations and many other organizations. In the short term, what I'm asking for is respectful cooperation in connection with our dignity and real needs. These real needs can be explained by local stakeholders. It would be important to sit down with Haitians in order to know how to intervene and what form it might take.

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi

You have a minute and a half left, Mr. Viersen.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Philippe, are there foreign interests that are driving some of the instability in Haiti?

10 a.m.

Feminist Activist and Community Researcher, Coalition Haïtienne au Canada contre la dictature en Haiti

Chantale Ismé

Definitely. That's what we're here to tell you about. For example, it used to be possible to go to Varreux, where there are fuel reserves. Yesterday, the national police went there and opened the area. Why now and not before? Right now, all the factories are closing and there are international interests at play. So resources can be found to get things done. The people of Haiti are now living through the end result of problems that have existed for years.

What we're saying is we now need to listen to what Haitians want, to address the needs and desires of the Haitian people, and to stop catering to the interests of international players and their lackeys. I said international, but there are also Haitian oligarchs and a Haitian bourgeoisie who support these interests.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Okay, I get that, but are there outside forces, though, that are coming in and driving the instability in Haiti?

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi

Please answer in just a sentence a two.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Maybe say yes or no.

10 a.m.

Feminist Activist and Community Researcher, Coalition Haïtienne au Canada contre la dictature en Haiti

Chantale Ismé

In the past, governments, including the Parti haïtien Tèt Kale, or the PHTK, brought in foreign forces to quash uprisings by protesters and prevent the people of Haiti from rebelling against the status quo. I'm not a specialist in matters like this, so I'm not sure I can fully answer your question.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi

Thank you, Mr. Viersen and Madame Ismé.

We're going to continue now with Mr. Dubourg, who has four minutes.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Emmanuel Dubourg Liberal Bourassa, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for having agreed to appear before the committee today. Their participation in our study is very important.

Ms. Ismé, I'm going to ask you the same question I asked earlier.

We're told that at the moment, there are over 85,000 pregnant women who are not receiving any services and that children under 10 years of age are being raped in front of their parents.

You spoke about the expertise of Haitians and Haiti's national police, the PNH. And yes, Canada did contribute to the training of PNH members.

You put forward some solutions. What should we be doing to defend the human rights of Haitians?

10:05 a.m.

Feminist Activist and Community Researcher, Coalition Haïtienne au Canada contre la dictature en Haiti

Chantale Ismé

Thank you for your question, Mr. Dubourg.

In my view, the first thing required is to stop supporting the current government, because it doesn't have the political will to solve the problems and that, precisely, is the heart of the matter. Unless the national police receives orders from the chief of the national police supreme council, the CSPN, it can't take any action.

The top priority is to get rid of this puppet government which was set up by foreign entities rather than by the Haitian people.

Then, I would reiterate that there are specialists in such areas in Haiti. The trouble is that they don't have the material and logistical resources. They need some mentoring in terms of training and practice. The national police needs to be structured in such a way that technical and tactical special units can be trained to respond quickly to circumstances.

Haitians should be dealing with the situation.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Emmanuel Dubourg Liberal Bourassa, QC

Thank you, Ms. Ismé.

As I have only a limited amount of speaking time, I'll have to go a little faster.

10:05 a.m.

Feminist Activist and Community Researcher, Coalition Haïtienne au Canada contre la dictature en Haiti

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Emmanuel Dubourg Liberal Bourassa, QC

You spoke about the situation for political leaders in Haiti and the Montana accord. I have in fact heard that those participating in this accord are at each other's throats.

I'm aware of the fact that you are very much involved in welcoming immigrants who come to Canada.

What can we do in the short term to give hope to Haitians and young people who want to help develop their country?

10:05 a.m.

Feminist Activist and Community Researcher, Coalition Haïtienne au Canada contre la dictature en Haiti

Chantale Ismé

It's hard to give a short answer, Mr. Dubourg.

The Haitian question is not just about the military. That's one of the reasons we are against a military intervention, along with the other factors I previously mentioned. You can't solve a humanitarian crisis by means of an occupation.

The humanitarian crisis needs to be addressed. Most of the young people who are in gangs have lost hope and are simply being used by the oligarchs, the people in power.

Another aspect of the crisis also needs to be addressed. This aspect requires a form of co‑operation that does more than simply hand out things like oil and bags of wheat.

As your speaking time is limited, I can't go into further detail. For example, because of the crisis, it's possible to buy staples that are beginning to rot from farmers. It's important to be creative while respecting what we want and relying on local workarounds.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Emmanuel Dubourg Liberal Bourassa, QC

Thank you, Ms. Ismé.

I have a final yes or no question for you.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi

Briefly, Mr. Dubourg.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Emmanuel Dubourg Liberal Bourassa, QC

Are you in agreement on what sanctions should be imposed on corrupt people in Haiti?

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi

A yes or no answer please, Ms. Ismé.

10:05 a.m.

Feminist Activist and Community Researcher, Coalition Haïtienne au Canada contre la dictature en Haiti

Chantale Ismé

Yes, insofar as it is done jointly with the new Haitian government.