Evidence of meeting #10 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was iranians.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Absolutely. Thank you for that. I will undertake to reach out.
With respect to the other instrument you mentioned, Psiphon, as you know, it was developed at the University of Toronto by the Citizen Lab. It is important that we do everything possible to utilize their tools.
Do you know of any other government that has used their technology and has put in big orders?
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
I ask because the more examples we have, the easier it is for us to try to push our government officials to do likewise. If you know of any examples where other governments have used or obtained their technology, we'd be grateful for them.
Human Rights and Democracy Advocate, As an Individual
The United States has been funding this particular organization for many years, because they are the largest company that serves VPNs to Iranians. They've had great success.
As I said, they have a new technology called Conduit. Again, I'm not a tech expert, but what I understand is that it allows regular citizens to donate their Internet bandwidth to those inside Iran, so that Iranians are able to utilize it and send communications, photos and videos in a situation like a blackout. It is a real lifesaver. This is not just about communicating back home to see how mom is; it is actually saving lives.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you for that, and for your guidance.
Mr. Shahrooz, regarding Starlink, I remember this has been a recurring issue. We have all mentioned the need to do this for the past three years. I assume the price of Starlink has actually plummeted in terms of how expensive it is to obtain its units. As it was mentioned previously, some units have made their way into Iran.
Do you know of any government that has gone out there and paid for Starlink to be used in various countries? Again, I use it not because I want to say.... I actually agree with everything you guys have said. I just want to have more compelling examples for us all to use.
Lawyer and Senior Fellow, Macdonald-Laurier Institute
That's an excellent question.
To my knowledge, the folks my colleague, Ms. Afshin-Jam MacKay, mentioned who worked on sending Starlink to Iran—Mr. Yahyanejad and other Iranian activists—have relied on funding, either direct or indirect, from the United States government. Obviously, the United States has not funded it directly or sent Starlink directly, but they funded civil society groups that are engaged in this. Whether the EU has engaged in this, I'm not quite sure, but I know for certain that the U.S. has. I think that's an important model for us in Canada to follow.
Again, as my colleague mentioned, this is a matter of life and death. The reason they shut down the Internet is twofold. First, it was to prevent people from being able to organize and coordinate. Second, it was so their crimes would not be reported in real time. Being able to combat that really makes the difference between life and death for thousands of people.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Absolutely. Thank you for that.
Now I'll go to Mr. Silver, whom we've had the pleasure of having here on many occasions as well, given his expertise.
You talked about the significance of prosecutions. You also reminded us that this Iranian regime has acted with impunity for many years and how important it is to hold them to account.
What are some of the impediments, insofar as the machinery of government is concerned, to prosecutions? Perhaps if you opened up that particular issue again, we could do a better job on our end of trying to encourage the machinery of government here in Canada to come to life.
Director of Policy and Projects, Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights
Engaging, perhaps directly, with—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
If it's possible, give a quick answer, please. The time is almost up.
Director of Policy and Projects, Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights
I would encourage the committee to consider posing these questions to the government and to those responsible for carrying out these prospective investigations and prosecutions.
Again, all a structural investigation calls for is the opening of the relevant resources to look into these crimes against humanity. It would mean interviewing Iranian Canadians about crimes they may have witnessed and looking into the matter, vis-à-vis passive jurisdiction, of Canadians who were killed or harmed in Iran, which Minister Anand has publicly acknowledged there were.
We have done so consistently and concertedly vis-à-vis Ukraine, and Daesh crimes against Yazidis, so clearly the machinery of government and the resources are there when it comes to other jurisdictions and crises. Certainly crimes against Canadians in Iran would merit that as well.
Liberal
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Daemi, you are obviously in contact with a lot of people in Iran and abroad.
As some witnesses mentioned earlier, does the fact that officials can live abroad, including in democratic countries such as Canada, have an impact on the feeling of impunity or even safety for some Iranians in the diaspora, regardless of where they are in the world?
Human Rights Defender, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Farsi, interpreted as follows:]
Yes, I can say for sure that the diaspora living outside.... In whatever way you can support Iranians in Iran, especially political prisoners and those who are on death row....
I, myself, was in prison. The people who were campaigning to support me were very effective. It was effective for the way they were treating me. It created a kind of security for me. It's not that they wouldn't do anything, but they were cautious in how they behaved.
The support from outside of Iran is loud voices for the people of Iran and the prisoners. It will cause the Iranian government to treat Iranians with caution. I believe that if the global world would make a wall against it, perhaps we would not be observing such atrocity against human rights. I think it would be effective.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Silver, it's partly because of me that you are often invited to the committee, because I really appreciate the light you shed on the issues we study.
International experts have concluded that due to its scale, organization and intentional nature, repression in Iran rises to the legal threshold of crimes against humanity.
Can you explain to the committee what that threshold actually means in international law?
Director of Policy and Projects, Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights
I thank the member for that question. It's relevant and important. I also thank the subcommittee for its commitment.
The United Nations has said, in two respects and at two separate meetings….
For the sake of clarity, I'll revert to English. Please excuse me.
One, the United Nations working group on arbitrary detention, which is a group of independent experts who analyze the deprivation and detention of individuals, has determined, in specific Canadian cases, that Iran's policy and practice of hostage-taking constitute crimes against humanity. It's noteworthy that this was a quasi-judicial decision rendered in the case of Canadians being kidnapped in Iran. Nothing was done about that decision. This was years ago.
Now, a second independent UN body, the fact-finding mission on Iran, has again determined that the criteria for crimes against humanity have been met. There are a number of considerations—scope, scale, the widespread and systematic nature of the engagement—but we need not go into what constitutes crimes against humanity. Oftentimes, it is prima facie. We see, based on the testimony and the very moving and eloquent remarks of my colleagues on the panel here, that what we are seeing in Iran is unprecedented, and it demands global justice.
Canada can be a leader here. There is an opportunity that exists within our laws and frameworks to stand up, speak out and take action on behalf of the brave Iranian people, and in particular Canadians who have both historically and currently been affected by this regime, whether on Canadian soil or within Iran.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
According to your work and other public reports, there are approximately 700 persons affiliated with the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps who are currently residing here in Canada.
The RCMP, as you mentioned, will launch structural investigations as soon as there are serious allegations of international crimes with a connection to Canada.
In your opinion, are all the elements in place for the RCMP to launch those investigations?
I understand that no one wants to interfere or tell the police what to do. In your opinion though, as an outside legal expert, do you think the elements are in place for police forces to launch those investigations?
Director of Policy and Projects, Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights
That's exactly right. There is a very strong Canadian nexus, both in terms of passive jurisdiction—the victims have been Canadian, again, both historically and currently—and also, prospectively, in terms of active jurisdiction. There is a high likelihood that some Canadians may even be involved in perpetrating the crimes, when you consider that there are 700 IRGC-connected individuals alleged to be in Canada, and likely more who are fleeing the regime or who may have some connections in Canada. There's a good chance that not only are the victims Canadian, but there may be some perpetrators who are Canadian. There's certainly the presence in Canada of perpetrators, regardless.
Again, as some of my colleagues on the panel mentioned, first, while we commend the actions that the Canadian government has taken, under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, to exclude the entry of members of the IRGC, the fact is that there are many who are already here and likely to evade those important policies and provisions. When some of these officials are caught in Canada, they should not be deported back to Iran—which is the current policy of the Canadian government—to keep killing people. They should be prosecuted when they're caught here. They should stand trial in Canada, and their victims, who are often in Canada, can take the stand and educate the world about what's happened.
Second, it would assist in ensuring that they don't end up in Canada if we were to undertake this structural investigation and make sure that Canadian Iranian victims—who, as Nazanin shared earlier today, often witness, in Canadian streets, the jailers, judges and police officers who persecuted them—have a single destination to be sharing this information with law enforcement so that it can be acted upon and, similarly, make sure we exclude these perpetrators from entering our country in the first place.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Ms. Afshin‑Jam MacKay, you mentioned Irwin Cotler earlier. My first question was about how safe someone might feel as a strong and free voice in a democratic country while there are also aggressions in our country. After Mr. Cotler was targeted, the House of Commons adopted a motion condemning those aggressions.
How safe does someone in Canada feel who freely and publicly opposes the regime?
Liberal
Human Rights and Democracy Advocate, As an Individual
I'll also answer in English, just to make it quick.
The answer is no, we do not feel safe. We all escaped Iran—I in 1979, at the start of the revolution, when my father was tortured and almost executed by the revolutionary guard. We came here to have a safe life, to have freedom, to have democracy, to have the things that every human being should have.
Instead, I look over my shoulder. When I came in here, I looked behind me to see who was in this room, who might be from the regime, who might be standing at the corner when I go outside. This is not just me; we all feel it. It's not just the activists; it's regular people who are just going out to protest. Do you know what happens the next day? Their family inside Iran gets a call. They are told, “I saw your daughter out in the protest. You better stop them or you're going to be victimized next.”
None of us feel safe, and this should not be the feeling that we have here in Canada. We need to put an end to this regime so that not only our Iranian brothers and sisters feel safe back home, but also Canadians feel safe. Irwin Cotler is not even Iranian.
The Islamic Republic of Iran is the biggest exporter of terrorism on the planet, supplying billions of dollars to Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis. This regime has caused so much terror in the world. They bombed the AMIA embassy in Argentina. They've employed—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Thank you. We'll give you a chance. You had two minutes; I have to stop you, sorry.
Human Rights and Democracy Advocate, As an Individual
Sorry, this is my last point.
They hired Hells Angels here in Canada to assassinate a couple in Maryland, near Washington.
Human Rights and Democracy Advocate, As an Individual
I understand. I'm sorry.