Evidence of meeting #15 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

James M. Laws  Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council
Brian Read  General Manager, Levinoff-Colbex S.E.C.
Linda Marchand  Executive Director, Agri-Traçabilité Québec Inc.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

We will commence the 15th meeting of this session of the Standing Committee on International Trade.

This morning we have witnesses from Agri-Traçabilité Québec Inc., Levinoff-Colbex, and the Canadian Meat Council. We'll begin with statements from our witnesses, followed by our usual round of questioning.

I'm sorry for the slow start. We had some committee business, so we'll probably go until 10:15, if that's agreeable to the witnesses. We have some committee business to deal with after that, at which point I think we'll go in camera.

I will introduce our guests. First we have James Laws, the executive director of the Canadian Meat Council. Then we have Brian Read from Levinoff-Colbex; and Linda Marchand, the executive director of Agri-Traçabilité.

We'll start with a brief comment from James Laws on the broader perspective, and then we'll move to Brian for more of a business perspective.

April 23rd, 2009 / 9:15 a.m.

James M. Laws Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for inviting us to speak to you this morning. My name is Jim Laws. I am the executive director of the Canadian Meat Council. We are Canada's national association representing federally inspected meat packers and processors in Canada.

With me is Brian Read, the general manager of Levinoff-Colbex, who will speak after me. They operate a cattle abattoir in Saint-Cyrille-De-Wendover, Quebec, and a beef processing facility in Montreal.

Canada's meat industry is the largest of the food processing sectors, employing some 67,000 people and with gross sales of over $20.3 billion. In 2008 Canada exported 393,000 tonnes of beef, valued at almost $1.4 billion, to 63 countries. Of that total, the United States of America is by far the most important market, with Canadian beef exports to the U.S. totalling 304,000 tonnes, valued at $1.03 billion. In addition, we exported one billion tonnes of pork, valued at over $2.74 billion, to 107 countries. Of that total, 307,000 tonnes of pork, valued at over $833 million, was exported to the United States.

Of course, as you all know, we've had several challenges over the last few years, from BSE in 2003 to avian influenza, E. coli 0157:H7, and most recently, as you are all aware, the rare listeriosis outbreak at one facility in Toronto.

Another thing that has really affected us lately is the enhanced ruminant feed ban. In July 2007, Canada's enhanced ruminant feed ban regulations came into effect. These imposed tremendous costs on our beef sector not faced by the American packers to the south. We continue to advocate for a $50 million bridge fund to help our beef industry pay for the disposal of these specified risk materials. We have been disappointed that no program has been announced so far.

One of our farmer-controlled cull cow members, Gencor Foods, closed its doors and declared bankruptcy on April 1, 2008, citing the high costs of regulatory compliance of disposing of specified risk materials as one of the main reasons for their demise.

The United States was to put in place its new enhanced ruminant feed ban effective April 27. They have now delayed that implementation date—although I saw something this morning indicating that perhaps that implementation was back on. I have to confirm that. But their regulatory requirements are different from ours, in that they focus on removing specified risk materials only from the older, higher-risk animals in which the vast majority of potential risk material is present. The United States may also soon get “negligible risk” status at the OIE, the world animal health organization, which will make it more competitive than Canada.

Food safety is the number one priority of the Canadian meat industry. Controlling bacteria, such as E. Coli 0157:H7 in beef, requires huge investments in laboratory testing, plant sanitation, equipment, conveyances, packaging, leading edge technology, and research and development. Existing E. coli intervention, such as steam, lactic acid rinses, and others, is estimated to cost over $5 per head. These are essential food safety aids.

The United States has had access to new antimicrobials and food processing advances for beef, such as irradiation, that we here in Canada don't have. This is a competitive disadvantage to Canada.

On meat inspection fees, last year in Canada we paid $21.4 million for those inspection fees. They are mandatory, and unlike other food sectors, we have no choice on meat inspection fees. These inspection fees are in addition to the growing staffing costs to deliver programs, such as the new HACCP-based inspection program, the new compliance verification system, and the significant increase in mandatory pathogen testing requirements.

Meat inspection fees are a competitive disadvantage to Canadian federally inspected meat processors. American meat processors pay no regular-time meat inspection fees—only overtime fees. Provincially inspected meat processors in Canada pay no meat inspection fees.

At the Canadian Meat Council, we have been pleased to be working on the new Canadian Food Inspection Agency working group on user fees. There has been a lot of work done on that to date. A change in the fee structure will hopefully result in more competitive fees and a fee service standard to ensure value and timely service for the fees paid.

We're also grateful to the Government of Canada for providing last year the red meat sector's processing facilities with $2 million in fee remissions. We certainly encourage the Government of Canada to adopt the recommendations in the working group report and to remove regular-time meat inspection fees.

Finally, on U.S. mandatory country-of-origin labelling, Mr. Read will expand on this. But we're certainly fully supportive of the Government of Canada's submission to the United States on mandatory country-of-origin labelling and its subsequent notice of a WTO challenge. The final rule did provide some added workable flexibility that has much improved the fate of Canadian meat and livestock producers from the interim final rule.

We in the meat sector are less affected than Canada's livestock producers. We can sell Canadian meat into restaurant and food services and to further processors in the United States that are exempt from the mandatory country-of-origin labelling requirements. However, the recent letter from Agriculture Secretary Vilsack to the industry asking for voluntary compliance with a more stringent labelling requirement causes us concern, and we are hopeful that he will respect the final rule.

Thank you for your time. I'll now pass this on to Mr. Brian Read.

9:20 a.m.

Brian Read General Manager, Levinoff-Colbex S.E.C.

Thanks, Jim, and thank you, Mr. Chair, for allowing Jim to give more of a national review.

What we'll now do is narrow this down to the effects on the plants in Montreal and Saint-Cyrville.

We'll focus on country-of-origin labelling first. It's probably costing us about 10¢ a pound on our bulk boneless beef going across the border, because of its exemption into retail at this point. They have mandated at the retail counter a target of 70% product of United States. I was down there a couple weeks ago, and of course, being a meathead, you always have a look at the retail counter to see what's happening there. They seem to be successful: it is 70% product of United States on the counter. They comingle the product I produce. It will end up in a further processing operation or a food service industry, and this has created a two-tier meat block. That's the only downside to it. So I would estimate there is a 10¢ to 15¢ a pound spread from what I used to get going into the United States to what I'm getting today, because of the United States' restriction of use. That's one immediate impact that we see.

As for the other impact, the United States is our major trading partner. It's a convenient partner. It's by road, it's overnight, it's fresh, and on and on. It just has all of the right things for us to be in business there. But we do need equivalent regulations. We've looked at harmonization with the United States since 1998, and I'm sure you've all read the free trade agreement signed by the Honourable Mr. Wilson. It's a fairly lengthy document, but it is worth having a read back in history, because that document mentioned harmonization with the United States, our number one trading partner, and we respect them.

I think the best we can shoot for is maybe equivalency. We should take that word “harmonization”, because I think it has been 20 years in the making. It has created a lot of jobs for people, but we're not quite there. The SRM policy has really hindered my ability to maximize my capacity in the plants in Quebec. I used to bring livestock up out of the eastern seaboard over there, the Vermont area, and we'd slaughter the cows in the plants when things got low in Canada.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Excuse me, Brian, but can I ask you what SRM is?

9:25 a.m.

General Manager, Levinoff-Colbex S.E.C.

Brian Read

Oh, it's specified risk material, sorry. It's all because of the outbreak of mad cow disease. Canada took the full list.

Should I spend a minute on it, Mr. Chair?

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

I just wanted to get that clarified, because I think it's important.

9:25 a.m.

General Manager, Levinoff-Colbex S.E.C.

Brian Read

When the outbreak of mad cow disease occurred in Alberta, there was a list of nervous tissue that had to be removed to protect the consumer, which we did put into effect as of August 23, 2003. We implemented that right across the country. That included the dorsal root ganglia, the tonsils, and the distal ileum. I wasn't prepared for this, but I know it like my name. It created, from a rendering standpoint or draw credit from the kill floor of the federal plants--just plant exit, not including transportation and disposal of this product--a $20 a head disadvantage to the United States for processing in this country on product over 30 months in age. The industry did that and protected the consumer. On July 27, 2007, we had to protect our herd, and we also qualified for controlled risk status when it came to mad cow, or Creutzfeldt-Jakob, disease. Actually, it wasn't that. That's the wrong one.

9:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council

James M. Laws

It's bovine spongiform encephalopathy.

9:25 a.m.

General Manager, Levinoff-Colbex S.E.C.

Brian Read

Right. Thanks, Jim.

And so came BSE. We had to then protect our herd against it. In order to qualify for our controlled risk status so we could maintain the current markets we have, and all the work the people in this room did to get our markets--the ones we have--it was part of our protocol that was written to the OIE. And we did that.

We expected at that time that the United States would have to come with us. Little did we know, they didn't. And they won't. But we're hooked into this for the next five years, and that's where the disadvantage comes from. Now I can't fill my kill.

We were also asked in this country—the Honourable Scott Brison can relate to this one—to increase our capacity while the borders were closed. We did that. We have enough capacity now to process 100,000 animals a week in this country. We're running at about 60,000.

It's a fickle business. When you're losing money, you can offset your losses with capacity. We're unable to do that in this country today, and I think you've seen some rationalization happening in the west in the last two months simply because of it. It's made the packing industry a real challenge again. We're turning over every stone, and we need all the help we can get from this room.

As I was saying, we would bring cows up from Vermont or out of the eastern seaboard of the United States to fill our kill out. We're unable to do that now because we're at a disadvantage of $30 to $40 a head because of our SRM program not being equivalent to that of the United States.

At the time it appeared it was the right thing for this country to do. We rely on trade. We export 60% of our production in beef in this country. We rely on all the necessities, the tools we can build into that to maintain our trade.

We're now into trade with the United States, which is our major competitor. That's who we earmark ourselves against, because that's what our consumers accept. It has really put us behind the eight ball with that difference of the rule. It's that major an impact. It's between $30 and $40 on every head.

We can supply this room with that detail before you go to Washington, if you so desire. But I come back to equivalency being so important with our number one trading partner.

I'll move on.

We also appreciate that in the province of Quebec we have one of the best traceability systems. We have a two-tier system in Canada. We have the ATQ and the CCIA.The ATQ has been audited, as well as CCIA, and they're both world leaders. The ATQ has maybe one up, because it has gone into all livestock species. I'm going to leave that one for Linda.

The other one is that I hope we don't get back to the par dollar. We survived it once, but in the manufacturing sector in our country, a par dollar is really difficult. It makes it a real challenge because of our infrastructure. At 25¢ cents, it's good; at 20¢ to 25¢ we can see it, but if you start getting it close to par.... We survived it once, but I'd sweat through the second one, believe me.

I'm going to leave it to questions, because it sounds as though we'll have lots, Mr. Chair. I'll share my time with Linda.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Great.

Linda Marchand.

9:30 a.m.

Linda Marchand Executive Director, Agri-Traçabilité Québec Inc.

Mr. Chair, honourable members, good morning.

Agri-Traçabilité Québec, a non-profit organization, was created on September 25, 2001, in order to develop and put in place a system for permanent identification and traceability of agricultural products in Quebec.

Building on the partnership between government and agricultural producers, the ATQ board of directors is made up of representatives from the Union des producteurs agricoles, MAPAQ and the Financière agricole du Québec.

The first traceability chain, from farm to slaughterhouse of international calibre was put in place in Quebec for the cattle sector in 2002, for the sheep sector in 2004 and in the deer sector at the beginning of this year. The three pillars on which the Quebec system is built are the identification of a product or animal a unique multi-sectoral data base and the follow-through on product movement, change of location. In Quebec, we chose to work with a single number for each animal and with RFID chips so as to have an automatic system and receive the data practically in real time in a central data base, and so as to distribute the information to the industry so that it can use it for its export markets.

We have also identified all the locations through which an animal can move during its lifetime so that every movement and change of location of an animal on the Quebec territory is registered in a multi-sectoral central data base.

If there was an epidemic in Quebec or a health crisis affecting more than one species and if several animal species were in contact with live animal markets, we could get the information quickly, map out the zone, stop the movement and thus quickly reduce the impact of a crisis on the Quebec territory.

In terms of other sectors already developing in Quebec, we have the pork sector, the poultry and table egg sector as well as livestock transportation, which is a crucial element of a traceability program, and there is also the horticultural sector. We are working in collaboration with representatives of the pork sector, and we should implement traceability in that sector by the end of this year. In the poultry and table egg sector, it will be done in early 2010.

Following the numerous crisis situations in animal health, consumers have become concerned about the quality and safety of food. In addition, global markets are opening up which makes traceability one of the important tools to allow the offer of products that stand out on a national scale as well as at the international level. I would like to emphasize that the Quebec system is built on the basis of the international standards established by the World Organization for Animal Health.

In addition to maintaining consumer confidence, an effective traceability system can prove to be an important tool in minimizing the impacts on the health of humans and animals in food safety crises. I would like to add that the Quebec system is mandatory and regulated by the province. It is the only mandatory traceability system in Canada. All producers and all stakeholders in the agrifood chain, such as shippers, livestock markets, agricultural fairs and slaughterhouses are under the obligation to transmit the information to a single data base, automatically and within a very short period of time.

The producer has to identify his animal during the seven days following its birth, he has to declare its origin, the date and place of its birth as well as its gender and location. As soon as this animal leaves the farm, all the information on its changing locations must be registered in the data base.

When we know the origin of an agricultural product or of an animal, as well as its itinerary and the contacts it has had with other animals or other products, we are able to ensure a quick response to problems and to make the needed recalls within a reasonable period of time.

Traceability is a tool that also allows for the verification of information relative to the origin of a product, and in a way such that consumers can be assured of the exact origin of a product or of an animal, and of the route that it will have taken all the way to the final point of consumption.

Having standards in terms of traceability for all agricultural products is essential in order for Quebec to continue to respond to the increasing demand for quality and safety from countries that import agrifood products from Quebec.

An effective traceability system can, without a doubt, contribute to the preservation of certain types of markets. In addition, it can help open up new ones thanks to the value-added component and quality assurance it brings to the table. For example, the fact of having access to the actual age of an animal or of knowing its precise place of birth, adds an element of transparency to the way things are done and preserves export markets. In addition, it underlines the efforts being made by different players in the agrifood chain to offer clear choices to consumers and products that respond to the highest standards for quality and safety.

Traceability should not, however, become a burden for producers and the other stakeholders in the agrifood sector, but an element that improves their competitiveness.

In closing, the story of a business in Quebec specializing in milk-fed veal—and I apologize for my colleagues in the steer sector—cannot be emphasized enough as it was able to successfully sign an exclusive deal for exports to Japan in 2005, even as the end of the mad cow crisis was far from apparent. By ensuring the complete traceability of its products, from the farm to the table, and above all else, having access via the Agri-Traçabilité Québec database to the birth dates of the animals, this business had a solid base from which it could build its export markets.

This concludes my statement. I am prepared to answer your questions. Thank you.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Thank you.

Before you start, how long have you been doing this? How long have cattle in Quebec had traceability?

9:35 a.m.

Executive Director, Agri-Traçabilité Québec Inc.

Linda Marchand

It was developed in 2001, and the first mandatory production was in the spring of 2002. This was in both the beef and dairy sectors.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Is there any cost to the taxpayer for this program?

9:35 a.m.

Executive Director, Agri-Traçabilité Québec Inc.

Linda Marchand

In Quebec, as I said, this is a partnership between government and industry. The Quebec Ministry of Agriculture assumes full responsibility for management of the Agri-Traçabilité Québec system.

However, producers and industry must automate their information systems in order to transfer the information to us electronically. And the producers have also had to pay for all of the animal identifiers.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

That's fascinating. This is very useful to us. We're heading off to Washington next week, and this is an important matter that we want to study. We're pleased to have you here to give us this information.

Mr. Cannis.

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Mr. Brison and I are going to share time. He'll start.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

All right.

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Thanks, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to each of you for appearing today.

I want to focus on the country-of-origin labelling issue. I recognize that it has already taken effect, but I would appreciate your insight on what would be the best approach for Canada in making representations to U.S. legislators and the administration. I'd like to have a better understanding of the thinking behind it on the part of U.S. legislators and the administration.

A few weeks ago, before it had taken effect, I had a meeting with Collin Peterson, and he said something that I think might be instructive. He said if this causes a real problem between Canada and the U.S. with regard to our integrated beef industry, then it would be re-evaluated. That's easy for him to say. It's really tough to reverse something like this once it's in place. It's clear to me that it's not really aimed at Canada; it's more aimed at Mexico. But we're getting caught in the crossfire. It could really hurt the U.S. beef industry as well.

Could you summarize a few points that we ought to make to the Americans that might demonstrate to them how the country-of-origin labelling doesn't help them and may actually hurt the American beef and food industry?

9:40 a.m.

General Manager, Levinoff-Colbex S.E.C.

Brian Read

I think there is that fear. You have to understand that the country-of-origin labelling was promoted by maybe one or two lobbying groups. I don't believe the regulatory people in the United States showed much interest in this. Politically, it was brought upon them. Down the road, it could be of great harm to the United States livestock industry, because of cost. They could force their consumers to have to pay more for a product of the United States. By alienating themselves, they could show resistance. Also, their feedlots and their slaughter capacity could be drastically affected. Last year the export of calves out of Canada was perhaps 1.3 million head. They're sitting down there on feed. It will affect their capacity. That's a disadvantage to the producers down there. Their cattle industry will also be drastically affected by it, because we are totally integrated.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Why would, for instance, Mr. Peterson and his committee support something that has negative repercussions for their industry?

9:40 a.m.

General Manager, Levinoff-Colbex S.E.C.

Brian Read

We all know how it works down there. It's a big centrifuge, and when it comes time to pull a political string, they pull it. And this one just didn't go away. Again, it was too strong. I know of one strong lobbying group that made it a real political issue, and that same group didn't want us back into their country. That's what caused it.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Which are the two groups?

9:40 a.m.

General Manager, Levinoff-Colbex S.E.C.

Brian Read

One was R-CALF. I don't want to give them notoriety for success, and that's why I was hesitant to say it.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

What is R-CALF?