Evidence of meeting #2 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was procurement.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Dany M. Carriere  Director, Multilateral Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Marie-Josée Langlois  Director, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Lynda Watson  Director, North America Commercial Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Thank you, everyone, for your prompt attendance.

We're going to begin right off the bat with our continued study of Canada-U.S. trade relations, despite what the clerk has put down here today. The first topic in this ongoing discussion will be the study of the agreement on government procurement.

Without further delay, I'm going to ask our guests.... First, let me welcome our guests. All are from the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. Dany Carriere, director of multilateral market access, is going to lead. We have Lynda Watson, director of North American commercial policy, and Marie-Josée Langlois, director of North American trade policy. Thank you all for coming, particularly for coming on short notice.

One of our members was anxious to have you here, and unfortunately he couldn't be here himself, but we'll be happy to carry on without him.

With that, I'm going to ask Ms. Carriere to begin with an opening statement. We'll follow it with general questions of the committee. Anyone can jump in to answer the questions once this goes around.

Ms. Carriere, perhaps you could begin, please.

3:30 p.m.

Dany M. Carriere Director, Multilateral Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Thank you very much.

I would like to begin by talking about the Canada-United States Agreement on Government Procurement. In response to the economic crisis, the U.S. government launched a stimulus plan covering public infrastructure spending for all levels of government under the title American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.

The Buy American provisions require that all iron and steel products, and all manufactured products used in construction and infrastructure projects and funded under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 be produced in the United States.

The US government uses specific programs to manage the allocation of funds under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.

The situation before the agreement: at the federal level, Canada and the United States have government procurement obligations under the World Trade Organization agreement on government procurement and the North American Free Trade Agreement; at the sub-federal level, provinces, territories, and municipalities have never taken on international obligations for government procurement.

Prior to the recovery act, Canada and the United States enjoyed relatively open trade in government procurement at the sub-federal level, despite the lack of formal commitments. However, the new “Buy American” provisions of the recovery act upset this balance between the two countries in the area of government procurement.

In its response, Canada sought to address the immediate impacts of the recovery act as well as long-standing trade irritants in government procurement. An initial Canadian proposal was developed with provinces and territories and delivered to the United States on August 20, 2009. The United States presented a counter-proposal to Canada during the first round of negotiations, held in Washington, D.C., on October 1, 2009. After several more rounds of negotiations and technical discussions, an agreement in principle was reached on February 3, 2010.

The agreement reached on government procurement contains three elements. In terms of the first element, using the WTO agreement on government procurement, the GPA, Canada is providing permanent access to certain procurement by all provinces and territories except Nunavut in exchange for guaranteed access to procurement by 37 U.S. states, as per the undertakings by the U.S. in the World Trade Organization agreement on government procurement.

The second element is temporary commitments expiring September 30, 2011, in which Canada provides access to construction projects for certain provincial and territorial agencies excluded from the Canadian GPA commitments and for specific municipalities in exchange for exemptions from the Buy American provisions for U.S. infrastructure projects in seven programs of interest that receive funding under the recovery act.

The third and final element is a commitment to explore within 12 months the scope of a possible permanent agreement between Canada and the United States on government procurement that goes beyond the World Trade Organization agreement on government procurement and the NAFTA.

The agreement has multiple benefits for Canada, provinces and territories. Canadian businesses now enjoy guaranteed access to sub-federal government procurement by 37 U.S. states, in accordance with U.S. undertakings in the World Trade Organization agreement on government procurement. Canadian businesses are eligible to participate in a number of infrastructure projects and programs funded by the recovery act. Canada has greater bargaining power to negotiate for access to the sub-federal procurement by other GPA parties. This could lead to greater market access for Canadian suppliers.

In addition, if new programs that include Buy American provisions are adopted, the commitments made by Canada under the WTO Agreement on Government Procurement (GPA) would protect Canada's right to access the markets of the 37 U.S. states subject to the GPA.

Current negotiations would give Canada access to a fast-track consultation process should similar Buy American provisions apply to future funding programs.

Securing the U.S. government's commitment to finding a long-term solution to the government procurement problems that goes beyond current undertakings could facilitate procedures should new Buy American provisions be introduced.

The Canada-United States Agreement on Government Procurement came into force on February 16, 2010. The Canadian government is using its American network to inform the American administrations and companies involved in procurement and distribution that Canadian companies are now eligible to bid on contracts. Our embassy in Washington and our Canadian consulates in the United States are conducting this information campaign. In addition, we are working with sector and trade associations to get our message out.

I would like to turn to the actual agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the United States of America on government procurement to explain the structure and to highlight some of the key elements. I believe everyone has a copy of the agreement.

The agreement is divided into three parts and three appendices attached to the main component. The first part, or part A, is the mutual exchange concerning the sub-federal commitments between Canada and the U.S. within the WTO agreement on government procurement and how to give effect to these commitments. An important concession for Canada that Canada was able to obtain is to ensure that provinces will benefit from the revised text or the revised procedures of the GPA, which are more modern, and obtain a moratorium on certain elements of the text to allow the provinces to align their procurement regimes. That moratorium is good for a period of 12 months.

The second part of the agreement deals with a temporary agreement on enhanced coverage. This is where it describes how this will come into effect. The temporary agreement, part B, remains in force until September 30, 2011.

Part C is where we find the commitment within the 12 months of entering into force of the agreement to enter into discussions to explore an agreement that would expand, on a reciprocal basis, commitments with respect to government procurement beyond those that already exist. It is also here that, in recognition of the important trade relationships between the parties and the value of reciprocal market access in government procurement, a party, either the U.S. or Canada, can request expedited consultations on any matter related to government procurement and the other party agrees to promptly engage in such consultations no later than 10 days after the request has been made.

I turn your attention to appendix A, which is the action that Canada had to take in order to give effect to the sub-federal procurement within the agreement on government procurement. It is clear that Canada changes its sub-central market to add provinces and territories that will apply to the United States and are subject to negotiation of mutual acceptable commitments, including thresholds, with other parties.

The appendix is then followed by the actual annexes that will appear now in the agreement on government procurement. It lists the goods and services construction thresholds using special drawing rights. The threshold of 355,000 special drawing rights applies to goods and services, which converts to $604,500 Canadian. The construction services threshold is at five million special drawing rights, which converts to $8.5 million Canadian.

This is followed then by the list of entities by the provinces that are covered by the agreement. It should be noted that Nova Scotia, Ontario, and Quebec have specific exclusions under their lists.

Following the listing by Yukon are the general notes applicable to provincial procurement. These are the exclusions that do not apply, so the procurements of these things do not apply to the agreement.

Annex 4 also had to be amended to provide a listing of what services would be applicable by the provinces. It should be noted that all the services listed are not applicable to the provinces. Only those beginning at 8674, urban planning and landscape architectural services, and those following are applicable.

Annex 5 is the construction services annex, and it is followed by the general notes, which also apply to the provinces. This is where you find the general exceptions for all of the Canadian coverage under the agreement.

The next important annex is appendix B, which is what the U.S. had to submit to the WTO committee on government procurement to advise that it would remove the exclusion of access to sub-federal procurement to Canada and to list the programs under the Recovery and Reinvestment Act that the U.S. is going to give an exemption to Canada and Canada only for the seven programs. You will find that in attachments A and B of the U.S. section.

Appendix C, finally, is a temporary arrangement on enhanced access. This one sits outside the WTO agreement on government procurement, and it expires on September 30, 2011.

It's separated in two parts. Part A has the core principles because the rules and procedural rules of the agreement on government procurement do not apply to this appendix. What we have here is a rules lite approach, followed by part B, which is at the end of it, which depicts what the market access consists of. Again, the temporary offer is for construction contracts only at above $8.5 million. There are general exclusions that are not applicable to the temporary offer. This is followed by each province and lists the entities that are covered or subject to the temporary offer that expires.

Thank you for your attention, and I'd like to open the floor for questions.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Thank you.

We'll begin with Mr. Brison.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Thank you very much for meeting with us today.

When specifically did Canada and the U.S. begin negotiations towards this agreement?

3:45 p.m.

Director, Multilateral Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Dany M. Carriere

The first time we met was on October 1, 2009.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

October 1...?

3:45 p.m.

Director, Multilateral Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Dany M. Carriere

The first round of negotiations was on October 1, 2009.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

And a proposal was submitted to the U.S. that had the backing of the provincial governments on August...?

3:45 p.m.

Director, Multilateral Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Are any local or municipal governments on the U.S. side covered under the permanent aspect of this agreement, i.e., the U.S. list under annex 2?

3:45 p.m.

Director, Multilateral Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Dany M. Carriere

No. The GPA commitment by the U.S. includes 37 states and no local governments.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

No local governments, okay. So there's no permanent access to local U.S. government contracts under this agreement.

3:45 p.m.

Director, Multilateral Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

On the temporary agreement on enhanced coverage, part B, U.S. contracts, at any point during the negotiations did the Canadian team have access to estimates of the value of the U.S. contracts under the 2009 U.S. recovery act that would be open to Canadian firms under this agreement?

March 11th, 2010 / 3:45 p.m.

Marie-Josée Langlois Director, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Defining estimates of the size of contracts, size of markets, of course is extremely difficult and highly speculative, given the way the money was allocated. If you look at the recovery act, the funding is allocated through various programs and then each department will manage those programs. It's then transferred on--sometimes kept at their level, sometimes transferred on to sub-federal level. If you look at the amounts in the act, it's very difficult to estimate the size of contracts, because it will depend on how the departments manage the funding.

In addition, as you know, the U.S. has a website called Recovery.gov, which reports on funding allocation and all that. If you look at that website, you'll see what it reports, really, are the transfers from the federal level to the sub-federal level, but not actual contract information.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

So the answer, then, would be no, you didn't have estimates.

3:45 p.m.

Director, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Marie-Josée Langlois

Estimates.... We've attempted to look at how to find information. We've looked at various sources of information, but actual estimates are very difficult to come to.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

So the answer would be no, you did not have estimates in terms of the value of the U.S.--

3:45 p.m.

Director, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Marie-Josée Langlois

On specific contracts, we would have to look at every single department and agency to see which contracts come up, and this we would only find out after they've been reported.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

You'd be a pretty good politician. Please, if you could help me with this, I'm just trying to determine, yes or no, did you have that information? If you had that, could you provide those estimates?

3:45 p.m.

Director, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Marie-Josée Langlois

As I said, the information that we have that's available is extremely difficult to put together, and it's--

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

So it hasn't been put together.

3:45 p.m.

Director, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Marie-Josée Langlois

We've attempted to put estimates together, but the information that we have is really how the U.S. is allocating funding. It's not what kinds of contracts or what kinds of markets we would access.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

I'm trying to be helpful. So the answer is no?

3:45 p.m.

Director, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Marie-Josée Langlois

Pretty much, because what we have is the allocation that the U.S. is giving to the various programs.

Also, if you look at how Canadian companies participate in contracts in the U.S., they're often suppliers to main contractors. So those transactions are based in the private market and they are very difficult to find information on.