International Trade Committee on Oct. 27th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

We are going to commence.

Mr. Holder, in good health, returns.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

I'm back to great health, Mr. Chair, thank you for asking. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Great.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

It's amazing what Scotch will do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Today we have somewhat of an upset day. We were expecting guests from Pakistan today. We have visiting members of the Government of Pakistan in Ottawa today and they had asked to meet with our committee, and we were very pleased to accommodate them. Unfortunately, it seems there's been some glitch in their schedule and they are now otherwise occupied. So we won't be visiting with our Pakistani friends today, but we have left the invitation open should their schedule make it possible at another point.

When we get to committee business, I want to just talk to you generally about that, because these things tend to come up, and my sense is we're happy to see them, visiting delegations. I mean, we've always been treated well when we travel abroad; I like to extend the olive branch to visiting parliamentary and government delegations. So when we can fit them in, I think we'll just do that.

Anyway, I'll take your comments on that when we get to it, because we do have, waiting patiently, witnesses for today on our last meeting on the act to amend the free trade agreement between Canada and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

So we'll proceed with that now and welcome, from the Canada-Arab Business Council, David Hutton, who is well known to many in the committee. He's director general of the Canada-Arab Business Council, and a former ambassador. And welcome Martha Harrison, from Heenan Blaikie, but also a board member of the Canada-Arab Business Council.

I think today we'll just proceed in the usual fashion, where I'll ask our witnesses to provide an opening statement. They are very familiar with the region and I think would be able to answer just about any questions you may have.

So I'll let them begin with an opening statement, and then turn it to questions.

Mr. Hutton, you're going to begin? Very well, thank you.

[David Hutton, Director General, Canada-Arab Business Council]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair and members of the Standing Committee on International Trade, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for this opportunity to meet with you this afternoon.

For my colleague, Martha Harrison, and me, it's a privilege and indeed an honour to be included in your deliberations on Bill C-8.

At the outset of my brief opening remarks, let me congratulate the government and this committee on the conclusion of the Canada-Jordan free trade agreement negotiations, together with agreements on the environment and labour cooperation. We look forward to its early passage through the Parliament in the next few weeks.

This is the first such agreement with an Arab state. That is grounds for celebration and it certainly enjoys our fullest support. Equally--and may I add, hopefully--it will mark a very significant step, if perhaps a relatively small step, in the building of the economic architecture in which Canada needs to remain competitive, which is the Middle East and North African region, a region known as the MENA.

Mr. Chair, I've been asked to address this committee in my capacity, as you noted, as the director general of the Canada-Arab Business Council, a position I've held for the last four years. Prior to that, I was a Canadian trade commissioner, with my last overseas assignment, posted to the United Arab Emirates, where I had the privilege of serving as Canada's ambassador between 2002 and 2006. It's my hope that my experience and insights will be of value to you and to your colleagues.

I believe most sincerely that the trade and economic architecture that is being created between Canada and Jordan, of which the free trade agreement will play a prominent role, should be the model and indeed the norm for Canada's relations throughout the MENA region.

The foreign investment promotion and protection agreement, or FIPA, the air transport agreement, and the nuclear cooperation agreement, which have already been concluded, underpin a strong and growing relationship with an important strategic Arab partner. Jordan unquestionably deserves our full support.

Moreover, with Canadian exports of $66 million in 2009 to this market, it is not hard to imagine the impact that a network of similar agreements with other Middle East countries would have on the Canadian economy. Last year our total export trade to the Middle East was in the order of $359 billion.

This region is also one of our fastest-growing markets. Please note that this figure of $359 billion does not include the North African countries of the Maghreb, which would add many billions more to that number. We encourage this committee to play a leading role in the development of this overall trade and economic relationship.

In January 2009, the chairman of the Canada-Arab Business Council, Mr. Hugh O'Donnell, wrote to Prime Minister Harper and noted that “Canadian firms have been capitalizing on economic opportunities in the MENA region”, and with increased support, much more is attainable. The free trade agreement with Jordan is a very concrete example of the kind of support we are seeking.

Mr. O'Donnell's letter went on to note that the BRICs--Brazil, Russia, India, and China--are impressive developing markets, but our exports to the gulf region alone are comparable to those of India and greater than those to Brazil or Russia. Our competitors realize this. One only has to look at the economic architecture of the United States or the European Union, with the free trade agreements they have established in this region, and the initiatives of countries such as Australia and New Zealand.

In concluding his letter to the Prime Minister, the CABC asked that the following specific proposals be considered, and with your permission I will repeat them, as they remain as relevant today as they did almost two years ago.

The first was to promote stronger Canada-MENA trade by increasing the trade and economic resources assigned to the MENA. The opening of an embassy in Qatar is a very good example, but many other trade promotion resources are needed, including more trade commissioners. Jordan is served by a trade commissioner based in Syria, and while it's extremely well served, it is an example of a limitation on resources available.

Indeed, the agreement itself I think is a reflection of our own Canadian ambassador, Margaret Huber, and the former ambassador to Canada for Jordan, Nabil Barto, in realizing the agreements we're reviewing here today.

A second point would be to prepare an accelerated timetable to negotiate the foreign investment protection agreements in the MENA region and to expedite commitments to negotiate foreign trade agreements with Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Egypt, and Lebanon, which already have agreements with the U.S.A. or the European Union. With the Canada-Jordan free trade agreement, a precedent has been established and a useful template created.

Thirdly, we propose the organizing--hopefully in cooperation with the Canada-Arab Business Council--of a series of government-led trade missions to the region, with the objective of visiting all MENA countries in the next four years with repeat visits to priority markets. We welcome the recent visit of Trade Minister Van Loan to the region and the participation of a number of CABC members in his delegation. Visits of this kind would also be an important role for this committee, particularly during periods of a minority government. You in fact could provide a very useful service to Canadian exporters by providing continuity and a frequency of contact as we build our economic relations to this strategic region.

Certainly, if you'll allow me to have overheard your remarks, Chair, the welcoming of foreign delegations is just one more example of the kind of role you can play.

The next point would be to facilitate economical and efficient air links for cargo and business, student, and tourist travel by expanding the network of air agreements and the frequency of existing ones. The objective is to have frequent daily flights to as many Middle East locations from Canada as possible. The air agreement with Jordan is a most welcome one, and we certainly look forward to its expansion and implementation.

Finally, we propose the development of a welcoming visa control program for business visitors that would be completely in line with those of the U.K., Australia, New Zealand, and the U.S. Again, we welcome the recent steps the government has taken in this regard.

This is perhaps a technical point, but we propose updating the list of qualifying employers under the income tax overseas employment tax credit--OETC--to include education, health, and other sectors of the Canadian service economy. As Canadian businesses compete in providing health care, education, and engineering services to the MENA market, Canada is losing market share to other countries that do not need to factor in these added costs in their bottom line. The Jordan free trade agreement does not cover services, but I suspect that a broader coverage under the OETC for Canadians working overseas, including in Jordan, could do as much for the Canadian service industries as any FTA provision would. This, in fact, is something that could be done by Revenue Canada immediately.

Finally, into this mix of trade and services is the enormous role of investment and supply chain management in the international economy. FTAs, tax agreements, and FIPAs are the basic element for thousands and thousands of calculations and decisions that now govern international trade in Canada and elsewhere around the world. I noted with interest that Canada's investment in Jordan is now over $1.5 billion and focused in the potash sector. It's an interesting example of the complicated implications that various trade and policy investments play in the role of international trade these days.

Mr. Chairman, allow me to close my remarks at this point and pass the microphone to my colleague, Martha Harrison.

Before doing so, let me note on a personal basis that I believe the Standing Committee on International Trade plays a central, integrating role in the increasingly complex world of international trade and investment. Objective analyses of Canada's overarching interest in the international arena are more needed now than ever before.

I look forward to our conversation during the question period to follow.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you, Mr. Hutton.

Ms. Harrison.

[Martha Harrison, Board Member, Canada-Arab Business Council]

Good afternoon.

It's with great pleasure that I'm here today with Mr. Hutton for the Canada-Arab Business Council. My law firm, Heenan Blaikie, is pleased to be a very active member of the CABC and a board member as well.

My experience working with Jordanian business was certainly enriched when I accompanied the CABC on a trade mission to the MENA region that included Jordan as one of the stops. Since then I've had the great pleasure of working in conjunction with Canada's embassy in Jordan and with Canadian and Jordanian businesses looking to collaborate on significant projects.

I share and echo the CABC's views, as expressed by Mr. Hutton, regarding the importance of the Canada-Jordan free trade agreement. As the first of its kind for Canada and an Arab-speaking nation, it will in its implementation send a message that Canada will promote and support increased investment and trade between our countries and that Canada's relationship with Jordan as a political and social stabilizer in the region is strong. This is an important message and, in my experience, has been noted and appreciated by Jordan's political actors and its business community.

With the assistance of the phenomenal Canadian embassy staff in Amman, Jordan, I have been pleased to reach out to Canadian businesses interested in expanding service and goods offerings in Jordan and the region. I have discussed such opportunities with Jordan's investment authority, based in Amman, and the message I have from the investment authority is that Jordan is open for business. There is a keen and obvious desire to increase Canadian activity there, especially in major infrastructure projects such as the Abdali project in Amman, in agricultural training and facilitation, and in the nuclear sector.

We currently enjoy modest trade with Jordan, with two-way merchandise trade of approximately $83 million in 2009. But with the elimination of tariffs on the vast majority of Canadian exports to Jordan, Canada stands to gain important export volume and value increases.

I look forward to continuing with the promotion of Canadian goods and services in Jordan, which will be even more compelling in the context of an implemented free trade agreement.

Mr. Chair and members of the standing committee, I thank you very much for this opportunity. We welcome your comments and your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you.

We will begin our questions today with Mr. Cannis, who will be very familiar to our witnesses.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Let me take the opportunity to welcome Ms. Harrison and my good friend David Hutton. I appreciated very much their comments. I appreciated Ms. Harrison's comments, with her having visited the region and gotten a better feel of it and for how we can benefit here as a country. And of course, Mr. Hutton has overall experience as a trade commissioner and former ambassador, especially in that region.

There's one thing I say about that region, colleagues: it's very long overdue in some ways. I thought we were making some positive steps in the past couple of years. We had appointed the first minister responsible for central Europe, eastern Europe, and the Middle East, and that was a quantum leap forward, I think, at that time. Unfortunately, there were no trade proposals formally put on the table. That's why, I must admit, Mr. Chairman, I was quite pleased when this Canada-Jordan free trade agreement was put before us.

I think it is a signal also, especially with the geopolitical issues that are unfolding daily, that this could be a kind of benchmark of some sort.

I'd like our witnesses to give us their perspective, because we are now faced with a sensitive situation involving Emirates Airline, and I think most of us understand how that region is intertwined—culture, language, etc.—on what kind of impact this might have. That's one question.

The other question I'd like to ask concerns the trade missions you said are needed. I was surprised when you talked about our needing more trade commissioners. Of course, establishing full embassies might be difficult, but would you see it as a possibility for a nation such as Canada to at least appoint a trade commissioner with some support staff in a country, whether we have a trade agreement or not? Or, especially with a country with which we are in the process of putting an FTA together, would a program such as PEMD, which used to be with us years ago supporting Canadian businesses wanting to do business abroad, be helpful as we move aggressively towards getting our share of the market internationally?

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[David Hutton]

Thank you very much.

There were several points that certainly I would endorse in Mr. Cannis' remarks.

First and foremost, I think this varies depending on the regions and the cultures, but based on my experience in my four years of living in the Middle East, the role that government can play, the role that agreements play, the role that meetings and personal contacts play cannot be overestimated. Unfortunately, these can be time-consuming and cumbersome things to do. But anyone who's involved in developing our business relationship with this part of the world successfully has realized that this investment can pay enormous dividends.

What would benefit our Canadian export community enormously is to have as many resources as possible, including those from our political and ministerial personnel and committees such as yours, focused on building and sustaining these relationships. It can be done through a whole variety of contacts, including, hopefully, meetings of economic groups with your committee. In no way do I underestimate the time these things take, but the payback, as I say, is considerable.

With regard to air links and the situation that Canada faces with the U.A.E., I'd be happy to expand on this further, but my perspective is perhaps unique. I have long championed increased frequency of airline service between Canada and the United Arab Emirates—very strongly so—as I would with Jordan, with Morocco, with Egypt, with Saudi Arabia. I will stop there, but I'd be happy to expand, if this were of interest to the committee.

I will say as well, as somebody who had the honour and the very sad role to represent the government and our country in Camp Mirage on a number of instances, and speaking to those of you who saw the cartoon in The Calgary Herald and in The Citizen, it certainly struck a very poignant chord on my side. There are errors of judgment on all sides here, and certainly a step forward on both sides is what is needed to put what should be a very, very special relationship between Canada and the United Arab Emirates, as one example—but Jordan obviously is another—back onto the right track.

You mentioned the role of trade commissioners and so on. There's no problem at all in positioning trade commissioners into posts where the ambassador is not resident. I think this would be a very welcome initiative, quite frankly.

As regards the old programs, such as PEMD and others, quite honestly I find that those are missed. Representing a business council that tries to accomplish as much as we can and to play a positive and constructive a role, I'll say that we are absolutely cash-strapped; our capacity to do things is extremely limited, because there's literally no money available for geographically based business associations at this time.

Thank you.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Could you name what other countries Revenue Canada or we as a country should look to as models in relation to taxation, movement of people, etc.? Are there any specific countries we should look at?

You mentioned some countries, and I didn't write them down, but who should Canada look to as a model that is doing business, for example, in that region, so that we can maybe adapt or fine-tune their systems and procedures to suit our laws here?

[David Hutton]

I'll ask Martha to comment on this as well, if she will. I highlighted this overseas employment tax provision because it's something, quite frankly, that I wasn't aware of myself.

Increasingly, we are looking at figures of perhaps $70 million in our trade to Jordan. But if you add the service component—in which I would include education, students studying in Canada, and so on—those numbers are probably double, at a minimum. It's certainly the case in most of the other countries in the region. But for Canadians who are involved in that side of the export equation, after a period of time—and I'm no expert in this—they have to decide whether or not they will sever their links with Canada from a tax point of view and become non-resident. That has enormous, not only personal considerations, but quite frankly, in my view, it has very considerable negative implications for Canadian exports.

In our tax regulations—and I'd be happy to send anyone who's interested a PowerPoint presentation that Ernst & Young put forward at one of our recent conferences—there are provisions for certain industries. Those, ironically, were set up when Bell Canada was establishing a telephone network in Saudi Arabia back in the 1970s and 1980s and thousands of Canadians were resident there. Those provisions allow for certain industries, including engineering companies, oil companies, and resource companies, to send their employees overseas and to receive a tax credit. I believe it's around $100,000. So they get a benefit for being abroad. Most other countries—I think all other countries, certainly the U.K., the United States, and others—have that provision in it.

But for Canadian firms—and education is a very good example; there are 950 Canadian educators in Qatar at the College of the North Atlantic. There could be more now. All those people are paying Canadian income tax, and in order for that enterprise, which has enormous positive implications for our relationship and our long-term economic future...we have a burden that makes us non-competitive with Australians, New Zealanders, and so on.

In my view, this is very much in the realm of this committee because these rules and regulations drive international trade now. Thank you.

Martha.

[Martha Harrison]

I will rest on Mr. Hutton's comments with respect to taxation. But on a couple of the points that were spoken about earlier with respect to assistance on the ground at the embassy in Jordan, I know the trade commissioner there, who is excellent, services four regions--Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and Jordan--and that's an extraordinarily onerous task. He has two commercial counsellors at the Canadian base in Amman who do an excellent job. I have personally had the pleasure of dealing with all three. They are promoting Canadian business at every opportunity and facilitating business for Canadian exporters.

In my professional view, having done business in Jordan and assisted clients in doing the same, it would be very useful to increase that staff. It's desperately needed, and if Canada is going to be implementing a free trade agreement with Jordan, which we certainly hope will follow, increased staff on the ground is an absolute necessity.

[David Hutton]

Excuse me, Mr. Chairman, I just have one quick point.

I recently had the privilege of meeting the Minister of Trade for the Province of Kurdistan in Iraq. He was telling me that 17 consulates have opened in Kurdistan with trade offices from other countries. Of course, we're servicing that out of Syria, as Martha says, with four other countries, including Jordan, as a responsibility. That's a heavy workload.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you.

Mr. Laforest, you have the floor.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome our two witnesses.

Your respective presentations tell us, in a way, that you have a lot of experience. You both have had some personal experience over there. I believe that gives us a rather positive insight on how we have to proceed if we want to trade with Middle East countries, more particularly Jordan.

Mr. Hutton, you have been an ambassador for four years. Other witnesses told us that they fear a free-trade deal with Jordan would lead once again to the same problem, that is a number of businesses are hiring almost exclusively foreign workers, to the detriment of Jordan workers.

You were not necessarily in Jordan as such, but you have been in the Middle East. In your view, would a free-trade agreement between Canada and Jordan improve the situation of both foreign and Jordan workers?

Ms. Harrison, you could also answer that question.

[David Hutton]

Thank you very much for your question. I think it's a very important one.

I personally believe, as I tried to imply in my opening remarks, that in order to move forward, we have to be bound together. I have not studied closely the provisions related to labour in this particular agreement, but certainly my experience and my advocacy would be to strongly endorse moving forward on this, because the simple reality is that without the provisions that are there, we have virtually no influence. We now have, I would hope, fairly substantial influence and a basis for building even more.

I remember when I was serving in the United Arab Emirates--and I apologize for drawing on that as an example--there was a hospital set up using Canadian hospital administrators. They received an award from the Government of the Philippines for the quality of labour-management relations, with a very, very significant number of Filipino hospital staff who were working under their responsibility.

That has been my experience with Canadian companies, all of it promoted by strong trade relations. We are a collective ambassador. These are facilitating agreements. They're not going to be the agreements that determine the good and the bad, but they will create the environment that I hope will determine the good and the bad. I think that's a very, very strong reason to endorse this agreement, quite frankly.

Thank you.

Martha.

[Martha Harrison]

Yes. In the context of the free trade negotiations, of course, there is the side agreement, which is the agreement on labour cooperation. This, as Mr. Hutton mentioned, provides Canada with an excellent opportunity to address whatever migrant worker issues we may have in Jordan in the context of this agreement. In fact, on the face of the agreement, we see there are commitments from both Canada and Jordan to address labour issues, to abide by and stand by commitments under the International Labour Organization, in addition to the elimination of all forced work, and migrant workers' rights are specifically contemplated in the agreement as well.

From my perspective, this offers Canada a nice opportunity to address these issues and to expect Jordan to make whatever changes are suitable to rectify the situation and to address our concerns.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Hutton, in the letter that you have sent to the Prime Minister, you talked about a visa control program for business people. Could you tell us about such a program? What need would it meet or what problem would it solve?

[David Hutton]

A study was commissioned and in fact presented by a number of business associations in January or February of this year that included the Canada China Business Council, the Canada Africa Business Council, the CABC, and others, of course.

The challenge we face is that our visa standards have been far more rigorous and I'd say administratively difficult than our competitors', and that includes the Middle East.

Now, the government, to its credit, has taken some significant steps to move from what was a one-year, I think one-time visa for countries such as Saudi Arabia to--for business visitors--up to a five-year visa.

I was at a conference in Montreal on Wednesday, and there were three presenters from Saudi Aramco, the world's largest oil company, who were going to meet with and present to that conference on the opportunities for Canadians in Saudi Aramco. Two of those presenters had not been able to receive their visas within a three-week period of time. Well, I can't emphasize what a critical opportunity this was for Canadians and Canadian companies.

Equally, on the education side—I don't have all of these figures in my head—certainly for a number of countries, including China I was told, education is our largest export. That's a staggering realization, and it actually feeds back into this tax credit issue.

But in the case, again, of a number of Middle East countries, they were being given.... A student would be accepted at a Canadian university, perhaps the Université de Montréal or the University of Ottawa or whatever for a four-year term. They would be given a one-year visa, non-renewable, and would have to leave the country. Well, that's the right hand and the left hand just going by each other.

Now there are steps to improve these things, but again, I think these issues fall within this trade committee. I honestly do, most sincerely, because if we don't get our act right, it's all going to go elsewhere--Australia, the United States--and we have a wonderful opportunity.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Merci. Thank you.

We'll move to Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks to our witnesses.

The part of your presentation on resources is music to my ears, because that's certainly something we have been pushing for, for some time. We have a fundamentally dysfunctional trade strategy when we look at the underresourcing that's taking place.

I just want to cite some figures, because Ms. Harrison mentioned the $83 million in trade with Jordan now. Unfortunately, in virtually every case, we sign these free trade deals and that's actually the high water mark.

I'll give you some examples. On Costa Rica, in the year we signed and implemented the trade agreement, we were exporting $77 million worth of products to Costa Rica, and last year it was $73 million. So over that period of time our exports went down.

Chile as well was $434 million in 1997, and 10 years later we had gone from $434 million to $433 million.

If we look at Israel over a six-year period, we went from $278 million to $239 million.

With the United States, we went from $237 billion in 1995 to $235 billion.

In each case what we've seen is we've signed these trade agreements--and in EFTA and Peru, of course, my colleagues are aware that there has been a marked decrease even in the first year.

So there is obviously something fundamentally wrong when we sign these trade deals and our exports to those markets go down. You have referenced some of the issues. We don't have enough on-the-ground people. I've met trade commissioners who say that under this government they have to pay for a cup of coffee for a client out of their own pockets.

There seems to be a starving of resources on exports, which belies the image the government puts forward of somehow wanting to encourage an export strategy and a value-added strategy. It's simply not the case. The figures don't lie.

I'm wondering what you would propose in terms of investments to actually stimulate the export industry. Putting aside a free trade agreement and whether or not it deals with human rights and the environment, just for a moment talking about an export-driven strategy, what kinds of resources do you believe we would need to actually put in?

Is it similar to Australia, where they spend half a billion dollars on product promotion? Is it similar to the United States or the European Union, where they spend over $100 million just in one sector alone? Is the overall investment of $13 million for worldwide product promotion enough? I would suggest clearly it is not.

[David Hutton]

Thank you very much, Mr. Julian.

I couldn't agree with you more. I remember I was attending the Dubai air show—this would have been four or five years ago—and the President of Brazil came with a very large delegation to the Middle East. Of course, our trade to Jordan had a nice bump up when Bombardier sold some aircraft to Jordan, but Embraer very effectively sold a number of aircraft to Saudi Arabia. The budget for the President of Brazil and his trade delegation for two days at the Dubai air show was over a million dollars.

It's a rough game out there. I think there is a role—and I realize it's not a role, necessarily, that you as politicians can play—of educating the Canadian public about the cost of doing business. It costs you $200, $300 a night to go into a hotel. No one expects someone with workloads such as you have on quick flights not to fly business class, and that's going to cost a certain amount of money. These aren't perks; these are the absolute norms of international business.

Quite honestly, if we don't grow up and realize that this is the game that's being played by France, by Germany, by the U.K., by Australia, by the United States, where a one-day visit to Greece, when the President came there—and Mr. Cannis will remember this—cost something like $5 million.... That's one day. It's overhead. But out of that, hopefully, you get the return on investment, and I'm 100% confident that you will.

Equally, there is a cost of doing business in embassies. Believe you me, I think my colleagues could not be harder working and more committed to public service, those in the trade and diplomatic service of Canada. It's not in any way an easy job these days, and the resources that are needed to facilitate interaction, to have hospitality events, are enormously significant.

If you'll permit me an aside, Mr. Chair, we were hoping that the Canada-Arab Business Council, together with the Council of Arab Ambassadors here in Ottawa, could host you and your other parliamentary colleagues at a reception on Parliament Hill, but of course—

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Sorry, but because I get only one set of questions, you can maybe raise that when the Conservatives ask you questions.

I just wanted to come back to two final questions, put them both out.

First, we've heard testimony about the situation for temporary foreign workers in Jordan--working seven days a week, being cheated out of their wages, stripped of their passports in contravention of all international conventions, working in primitive dormitories infested with bedbugs. This was after the signing of the U.S.-Jordan agreement, and there's been no monitoring or enforcement. And of course our trade agreement is much weaker than the U.S. one.

How do we ensure that the promises around complying with labour rights and environmental rights, like Mr. Laforest mentioned, are actually met?

My last question--and I'll throw both of these out to you—is about Camp Mirage and the U.A.E. What could the government have done differently to avoid the embarrassment of being kicked out of the camp?