Evidence of meeting #26 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agriculture.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
12:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Apparel Federation
I'm happy to address it. I can't speak to the individual circumstance you're talking about, because I don't know the details.
I was speaking about an hour ago to a company. It was identified that some production destined for that company had been manufactured in our plant and there were problems. They didn't hesitate to figure out what the problems were, identify them, and make their own judgments. Then they went about bringing their supplier in and telling him what they were going to do. They were going to go over to Jordan, get this registered, and get it all sorted out. They would do their own audits, separate from the ILO, and then they were going to get on the golden list that the Jordanian ministry maintains. You can't compare that with the process in any other developing country.
12:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Apparel Federation
I don't know what can guarantee you. The guarantees you can have are that you can respond to those situations when they occur, and that there are structures in place to do so. That's a good compliance program, front-ended. I don't think anyone wants to go to factories where there are problems. But you have to be able to respond. There are exactly two countries in the world that have “better work” program. One is Cambodia. I don't think it's nearly as active as Jordan, but we could see. Jordan is active and you're getting the buy-in of the companies.
Your question was how within this agreement can we guarantee this. I don't know. I'm not a trade lawyer. I work in an industry and I have confidence that the industry, when presented with those kinds of circumstances, can respond, provided that there are impartial structures in place, as there are in Jordan.
12:30 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
I guess the difficulty is that it seems that they have to be presented in public before action takes place. This is the veil that needs to be lifted from the problem.
What specific company were you talking about? It would be interesting to hear from them.
12:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Apparel Federation
IBG and Nygard International are doing work there. They've been invited by the clerk to appear and I believe they will, but that's not the company I was referring to previously. I'm not at liberty to mention its name.
12:30 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
So you can testify about them and their actions, but you can't say who they are.
12:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Apparel Federation
But it doesn't mean that the clerk can't--
12:30 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
It's important if the veracity of the testimony is what we want. We would like to hear those examples. I've encouraged them, and I hope they will go public. If you're saying that is what has taken place, that's a positive example to use for other companies that might be having some of these difficulties.
12:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Apparel Federation
I think the record of the “better work” program demonstrates that this is exactly what is happening. This is contrary to the circumstances that you find in the 47 LDCs—
12:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Apparel Federation
—Canada gave duty-free access to.
12:30 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Just because we allow those abuses and buy those products, that doesn't make it right for me and the people I represent. It doesn't make it right. That should be changed.
12:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Apparel Federation
What I'm saying is that there are circumstances in place in Jordan superior to those in virtually any other developed country that allow you to attain the kinds of outcomes you're asking about. That's all. I'm not saying that anyone's excusing any kind of abuse in any circumstance.
12:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Public Affairs and International Trade, Forest Products Association of Canada
I'm going to take an environmental approach to this. I can't speak to the human rights side of things, but I can speak from our experience in the environment.
Forest products, for a long time, were not exactly produced in the most sustainable fashion. Then along came something called certification. Canada has adopted certification for its forestry practices. In fact, Canada is the leader in forestry certification. That has floated the boat up around the world. You used to be able to get products from parts of the world where their practices were not the best, not sustainable, not the most environmentally preferable, until there was a premium in the marketplace for products that were certified. This is a business response. You're asking for more of a social response, but I can't give you that response. I can give the business response, which is that certification has lifted the standards around the world for forest products and for how we get our forest products. I think this can serve as an example. Market discipline will have an impact over time.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
To our witnesses, thank you for being here today.
Ms. Sullivan, Ms. Kubba, and all the women around the table, happy International Women's Day.
In my case, I have three daughters in their twenties, and every day is International Women's Day in our home.
12:30 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
I have no say. I have two grandsons now, so we're trying to get some balance.
Speaking of balance, I really want to thank you for coming and providing some input to the committee. Some of you are honorary committee members, who have.... This is the third time, and I've been on the committee for over six years. Hopefully we'll get this passed by the summer and into effect, because we know that the United States has had this unfair trade advantage for over a decade.
To Mr. Casey, you mentioned Tolko. I represent Kelowna—Lake Country in the Okanagan in British Columbia, and Tolko is one of the mills in my riding.
Could you just clarify the impact that the trade agreement the U.S has in place has had compared to Canadian industry?
12:35 p.m.
Vice-President, Public Affairs and International Trade, Forest Products Association of Canada
Absolutely.
We know from looking at this particular deal that about $20 million in product goes to Jordan from Canada. It's a marketplace of nearly $400 million. The bulk of it is in the form of paper, which comes from Quebec, and lumber, which comes from British Columbia. Both of those product lines are subject to duties of anywhere from zero to 30%, depending on the type of product line it is. That of course makes us uncompetitive compared with all of those other manufacturers selling those same products into the marketplace.
When you look at Jordan, we're up against primarily the Russians on the lumber side. I would suspect that some of the paper comes from places like Indonesia and Asia. Getting into that marketplace, a significant advantage....
Certainly if things are coming in from the EU, they have zero percent, but if we can get rid of the duties that are there, the tariffs that are there, that makes us far more competitive on those product lines.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
So you're seeing some good benefits for Quebec, then, with this agreement?
