Evidence of meeting #50 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was wine.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Barry Sutton  Vice-President, International Sales, Maple Leaf Foods Inc.
Ray Price  President, Canadian Meat Council
Jacqueline Sava  Director of Possibilites and Founder, Soak Wash Inc.
Pablo Garrido  Owner, Savia Wine Agency
Chris Wilkinson  Director of Sales and Operations, Soak Wash Inc.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

I'd like to call the meeting to order.

We have our members at the table, we have a witness at the other end, and we see the clock at 3:30.

We have a bit of an abbreviated time period. I believe the bells are going to go at about 5:15. When the bells ring during the second hour, we'll suspend the questions and move into a quick in camera portion of the meeting. I believe Mr. Easter has a motion to bring forward at that time.

We'll start with the witnesses we have in the first hour.

We have with us from the Canadian Meat Council, Mr. Ray Price, president, and from Maple Leaf Foods, Barry Sutton, vice-president for international sales.

Thank you for being here. We look forward to your presentations. We're dealing with the economic partnership agreement with Japan, and we're very much looking forward to your testifying.

Mr. Easter, please be very quick.

October 16th, 2012 / 3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Yes, I know we're short of time, but I will be moving my motion with respect to having government officials do a briefing before the committee on the Canada-China foreign investment promotion and protection agreement. Did I understand from your words that this would be in camera?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Listen, we're not going to argue this point, and I have talked to you before about it. Do you want to raise this right now? Let's just get it out of the way.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Okay.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Is it a done deal?

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

I guess I don't need to read the motion.

Basically, in order to save time, Mr. Chair, I believe we need a briefing. There's a lot of discussion on the Canada-China foreign investment promotion and protection agreement. It would be a briefing by government officials. Canadians need to know what it really means. We need to know what it really means.

Instead of reading the motion, I will move that we do this.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

We have a quick intervention.

Mr. Davies, go ahead.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Chairman, I'm going to speak in support of Mr. Easter's motion.

As you know, the official opposition, the New Democrats, put in a motion two weeks ago to have a study of the Canada-China FIPA. In my office we're getting hundreds of emails and concerns from Canadians across the country about this very major investment agreement, which I understand has taken many years to negotiate and may be passed by this government without any debate.

It's vitally important that we have a briefing. I reiterate my call to the government to put this before a committee so that we can hear from stakeholders across the country, businesses, provinces, investors.

This is a good motion, but it's only a partial motion that merely begins to address the very important issues Canadians want us to deal with.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

All in favour please signify.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Could we have a....

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

No. It's going to be unanimous, unless you guys are opposed to it.

(Motion agreed to)

It's carried unanimously.

Mr. Sutton, the floor is yours, sir.

3:35 p.m.

Barry Sutton Vice-President, International Sales, Maple Leaf Foods Inc.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

As mentioned, I'm with Maple Leaf Foods. I'm also a director of Canada Pork International.

Maple Leaf Foods fully supports and strongly encourages the ongoing efforts of the Government of Canada to expand market access for the vitally important Canadian pork industry. An EPA with Japan that enhances our access to this high-value market is welcomed by Maple Leaf Foods.

The Japanese market is extremely important to the Canadian pork industry, with sales of 220,000 tonnes worth about $893 million in 2011. This represents 20% of all the pork we export from Canada by volume and about 28% by value. Japan is Canada's second largest pork market after the United States. This trade initiative, which will most certainly enhance Canada and Japan's relationship and address challenging commercial issues, is particularly welcome as it could provide Maple Leaf Foods and the Canadian pork industry with a competitive advantage in Japan. For guys like Ray and me, that's very important

Maple Leaf Foods has had a long history in the Japanese market. We have maintained an office in Tokyo since 1980. In 2011, Maple Leaf Foods exported 77,000 tonnes of agri-food products worth $310 million. My company represents 30% of Canadian pork exports to Japan from Canada, and we hold a 9% market share of all the pork the Japanese import. We operate a dedicated pork plant in Lethbridge, Alberta, and have focused the first shift of our Brandon Manitoba flagship facility on high-value chilled pork for the Japanese market.

As far as the Canadian market is concerned, Japan is extremely important to the industry, as I've mentioned. Canada exports approximately 65% of the pork we produce. Markets like Japan are crucial for us.

Maintaining access to this market is critically important to all stakeholders in the business, from hog farmers whom we work with to packing-house employees across the country. In addition to that, Japan represents the highest dollar value return of any market that Canada ships pork to. As a result of this, it's highly sought after by our foreign competitors. Over the last few years, Chile and Mexico have concluded free trade agreements with Japan, which gives them preferential access on pork products.

Just last week, on October 11, the EU's international trade committee gave the green light to free trade talks between the EU and Japan

I would like to briefly touch on our experience with our negotiations with Korea.

in 2008, free trade talks with Korea broke down and both governments stepped away from the negotiating table. In the interim, Chile, the EU, and the U.S. successfully concluded trade agreements with Korea. Korea now has trade deals with three of Canada's largest pork competitors. I raise the issue of Korea because Canada cannot repeat this experience with Japan. It would be devastating for the industry.

Prior to implementation of the U.S.-Korea trade agreement in March 2011, Canada was Korea's second largest foreign supplier of pork and Korea was Canada's fourth largest destination for pork products. We exported of 94,000 tonnes, worth $234 million.

This year, Canadian pork exports to Korea are down about 30%, and as we see the next phase of tariff reductions occur, we'll see another very sharp drop in our exports to that market in 2013.

Maple Leaf Foods strongly encourages the Government of Canada to conclude an agreement with Korea as soon as possible to avoid further erosion of Canadian business in this important market.

Getting back to Japan, it currently applies high tariffs on many agricultural products, including pork and beef. In the case of pork, this includes a complex differential duty system, which disrupts the free flow of pork imports. I would be happy to answer any questions on this as we get into the question segment.

The protection Japan provides its agricultural sector has often been viewed as impeding meaningful trade negotiations. Maple Leaf Foods shares this concern. However, we are encouraged by Japan's basic policy on comprehensive economic partnerships, which it adopted in 2010.

Basically, this policy states that Japan will aggressively pursue bilateral trade agreements in areas such as agriculture. More importantly, they're prepared to deal with the many issues in agriculture and to reform their agricultural segment.

We view these reforms as essential to ensuring a comprehensive agri-food package in the EPA with Japan.

Thank you very much, and I look forward to your questions.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much.

Mr. Price, the floor is yours.

3:40 p.m.

Ray Price President, Canadian Meat Council

Good afternoon. My name is Ray Price. I'm the president of Sunterra Meats, and this year, I'm the president of the Canadian Meat Council.

It's certainly a pleasure to be here today to speak to you on the topic of an economic partnership with Japan. The Canadian Meat Council is a long-standing national industry association that's been representing federally registered meat packers and processors of beef, pork, horse, lamb, and veal since 1919. Canada's meat processing, packing, and rendering industry is the largest food processing sector in Canada, with close to 70,000 employees and gross annual sales of over $24 billion.

At the outset, let me say that the Canadian Meat Council is a very strong proponent of free and open international trade. We welcome the government's initiative to negotiate an economic partnership with Japan. With trade representing 63.9% of our economy, Canada already has one of the most open, globally competitive economies in the world.

With regard to meat products, Canada already allows free, open access to imports from all countries in the world for pork, lamb, and horse meat, with zero import duties and no quantitative restrictions.

Canada's beef and veal industry is keen to open up access to beef imports from Japan in exchange for free and open access to its market.

Trade is incredibly important to our industry, as we have the ability to produce a lot more food than Canada's 34.9 million citizens can consume. In 2011, we exported over $1.3 billion of beef and veal and over $3.2 billion of pork to over 150 countries around the world. Of that amount, $852 million of pork, $81 million of beef and veal, and $16 million of horse meat were destined for Japan.

Japan is the third largest economy in the world after the United States and the People's Republic of China. It has a large affluent population of nearly 128 million. Its imports are estimated to represent 60% of agricultural and food products consumed domestically each year.

The Japanese market imports over $8 billion of pork and beef products, even with their very punitive tariff and import structure. In 2010, Japan consumed 21% of Canada's meat exports, or 7.5% of Canadian food manufacturing exports. Needless to say, there are definitely untapped opportunities in Japan. An economic partnership with Japan represents an opportunity for our industry to secure and grow our exports of chilled and frozen meat products to that country.

What should we be looking for to enhance market access? There are non-tariff barriers that can distort trade. In 2003, Japan put in place a total prohibition on Canadian beef, lamb, and bison imports in response to the discovery of the first domestic case of BSE in Canada. In December 2005, it partially lifted the prohibition to allow beef only from Canadian cattle 20 months and under. That restriction remains in place today, despite a request by the Government of Canada in 2008 to allow the further expansion of imports.

We acknowledge the support of the Government of Canada in convincing the Japanese authorities to remove these age restrictions. Opening access to beef under 30 months of age would be a good first step, and we understand that this is under consideration in Japan at this time. We also would like to have lamb and bison access reopened, as all imports of these products were caught up in the BSE closure in 2003.

On a go forward basis, the economic partnership agreement with Japan is a positive development for the Canadian meat processing industry. The agreement should set the framework to remove some of the non-tariff barriers that can still limit market access.

With respect to tariffs, Japan's applied tariff on beef is 38.5% on the Canadian side. With the reduction or removal of these trade barriers, we believe that the potential for beef exports to Japan could easily triple to reach $250 million to $275 million.

Unlike beef, Japan's pork regime has been operating under a complex differential duty system known as the gate price system. Gate price is a minimum import system set at 524 yen per kilogram of pork cuts, to which a 4.3% duty is levied. The gate price amounts to $6.55 Canadian per kilo, with another 28¢ of duty, at today's exchange rate. In a simplistic way, if you ask what the impact of that is, well, right now, a pig in Canada is worth about $130. In Japan, the same pig is worth $430. From that perspective, it makes a big difference in the protection it affords the Japanese. It's obvious that the gate price has that big an impact.

In addition to what I mentioned, there is also a safeguard system that actually will kick in if imports are triggered more than a certain level over the average of the previous three years. That has disrupted the flow of meat products in the past as well.

With respect to pork products, the objective of the economic partnership agreement should be focused on seeking substantial reductions in pork tariffs and on reform of the gate price and safeguard systems.

By way of illustration of the potential impact of an agreement for both beef and pork, Mexico signed an EPA with Japan in 2005, even though compared to Canada they are really not a competitive place for producing pork and beef. Their pork exports to Japan increased by over 60% in the four years after the agreement came into force. As for beef, there have been dramatic increases as well.

Prior to the EPA, there was very little beef exported to Japan from Mexico. Now Mexico sells more beef to Japan than Canada does.

While all trade deals are complicated, perhaps a simple example can be used to show the impact. If the 4.3% tariff on pork was eliminated for Canada, it would be roughly about $12 per head of increased revenue. That's significant for Canadian processors and producers. Similarly a 7.7% reduction in the beef tariff, which is what Mexico has for their portion of shipments, could be the equivalent to over $70 per head in beef.

Of course, there is also a great risk in not doing a deal, as Barry just mentioned, using the Korean example. If we don't do a deal, we would be in a much worse place than where we would be if we could get a deal done.

In closing, allow me to reiterate that the Canadian Meat Council fully supports the government's trade strategy. An economic partnership with Japan is an important component of that strategy. Fundamentally, Canada is a competitive, high-quality producer of meat, with the geographical advantage of having the closest North American ports to Japan. Without a doubt, the economic partnership agreement with Japan will enhance agricultural trade flows to Japan. It also will allow Canadian meat packers, processors, and livestock producers to enhance their viability and diversify their markets through increased trade.

Thank you for the opportunity to share our comments with you. I'll be pleased to answer your questions.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much for your intervention.

We will now move to questions and answers. I'll remind the committee that we'll close off questions a little early to allow enough time for the second panel, as the bells will ring at 5:15.

Mr. Davies, the floor is yours.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and my thanks to Mr. Price and Mr. Sutton for being with us today.

The official opposition, the New Democrats, are also supportive of having swift and thorough negotiations. We're excited about the prospects of having an economic cooperation agreement signed with Japan. We think that Japan is an ideal partner for Canada in many ways. It's a mature democracy. It has very high standards. We're learning across the board about high-quality standards, high environmental standards, high labour standards, high sanitary and phytosanitary standards. We think there are a lot of complementary areas between our economies, and we'll be pushing the government to move as quickly as they can to get a comprehensive agreement.

You mentioned non-tariff barriers. I'd like to have a brief description from each of you. Please give us one or two examples of concrete non-tariff barriers that you think we need to address to help your industries.

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, International Sales, Maple Leaf Foods Inc.

Barry Sutton

Japan is fairly open as far as non-tariff barriers are concerned. My concerns would lie more on the tariff barriers. Everybody in this room should be very proud of the Canadian industry. We've figured out how to operate in Japan. We do it very well. My concerns would really be on the other side.

3:45 p.m.

President, Canadian Meat Council

Ray Price

The main non-tariff barriers are related to veal, lamb, and beef. Right now the non-tariff barrier is that instead of having under 30 months, it's 20 months and under. It effectively takes Canada out of the market in Japan for three months of the year. If you know the Japanese market, you have to have supply every week of the year. If you don't, they aren't buyers of your product. Effectively, the biggest non-tariff barriers are on beef, lamb, and bison.

To reiterate, we talk about beef mostly, and it's a very important part of our industry, but the lamb sector and now the growing bison sector are also parts of the industry, and they seem to have been left behind in the whole context here.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Both of you are very experienced in the food business, in meats in particular. Would you agree that Japan has very high sanitary and phytosanitary standards?

3:50 p.m.

Vice-President, International Sales, Maple Leaf Foods Inc.

Barry Sutton

Absolutely. To be successful in that market, you have to work back into your company in Canada and clearly understand the standards in Japan, how they differ, where they differ. You will not be successful in Japan unless you can address those and come into line with the Japanese expectations.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

That would include a very high expectation for food safety?

3:50 p.m.

Vice-President, International Sales, Maple Leaf Foods Inc.

Barry Sutton

Very high.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

You already mentioned, I think, the BSE issue and the fact that it strongly affected our beef industry here in Canada. In fact, it affected more than the beef industry. It sounds like the Japanese also extended it to bison and lamb. I know that Taiwan and other Asian countries have done the same thing. To this day, Canada and Canadian beef and meat producers still don't have full access to those markets because of issues with BSE.

Therefore, I can't help but raise the issue currently facing us in this country, the issue of the E. coli outbreak. Would you say that the E. coli outbreak and the concerns for the safety of beef here will not, let us say, be helpful in getting greater access to the Japanese market?

3:50 p.m.

President, Canadian Meat Council

Ray Price

I think anything that is publicized as widely and as broadly as that won't help the confidence level. Just to reiterate, we're probably the smallest company that exports to Japan and Maple Leaf is probably the largest company. Between the two of us, our plant has 120 people and Maple Leaf has a lot more. From that perspective, you will get a fairly good context from both of us.

From my perspective, the Japanese are very pragmatic about food safety and they understand the controls and systems. The one thing about the Japanese, in my experience, is that they are very impressed with our systems, our systems being the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and our plant system.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Can I ask you quickly how many cases of BSE were there in Canada at the time?