International Trade Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2014

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Yes. We try to be reasonable and work with our colleagues from all parts. I know that MP Crowder and MP Lunney are two great MPs on the island. They're both retiring but we work together as I know it's a coastal forest community as well.

I know it's one of those situations where we tried to make sure that all levels of government.... As you say, there's only one taxpayer so I understand the concern. That was a historic bridge and something that's been sentimental to many in the community.

You mentioned in your opening comments—and my colleague Mr. Hiebert reaffirmed—that bulk water wasn't part of NAFTA and it's not part of CETA. Actually our colleague Larry Miller had a House resolution in Parliament to deal with water and bulk water is protected. So I just wanted to clarify the concerns that you had that there was no consultation. Minister Fast as a trade minister also spent nine years in local government in Abbotsford and worked closely with FCM over the last several years and we have several news releases from FCM supporting it.

So maybe you could just clarify, is it the concern that giving access to procurement by municipalities will encourage privatization of the water systems? Is that your concern?

[Marianne Alto]

It's one of the concerns, but I think the privatization issue for us is linked very clearly to procurement in general. You look to our bridge, and we love our new bridge. But had this been in place two years ago when the planning for the bridge began and the actual RFPs were let, our impression is that we would have had a lot less choice than we had at the time around who we actually wanted to build the bridge.

When we talk about the things that we needed to do, as my colleague has suggested, around making sure the old bridge stayed open and around making sure there was a demonstrable benefit to the community, not just from the outcome of the bridge itself but to the people who were building it, it was important for us to have that opportunity. Given the size of the project, my understanding of the rules would be that we would have had a lot fewer opportunities to make choices with local procurement.

Water is a big issue for us because I understand your references to bulk water, but we are still unclear about the operational issues on water possibilities and privatization and particularly around not just the sale and operation of water systems but the output of things like our new sewage system.

So water is still a big concern for us because we haven't seen the details, but procurement is almost more of a concern for us because so many of our local strategies around economic development are built primarily on our ability to prioritize our local contributors. We are again really nervous about the limitations that we see there on what we can do, when, and under what threshold.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

We're here to ease your anxiousness and nervousness and let you go back to the island and be in peace.

In fact on FCM's website there are answers to a lot of those questions. Actually the question is there, “Will giving access to procurement by municipalities encourage privatization of public water systems?” Minister Fast says:

Nothing in any of Canada's international trade agreements can force countries to privatize or regulate their public services. Decisions to either privatize or deregulate in certain public sectors are guided by domestic policy decisions. When a government decides to do so, foreign companies who enter the market are always subject to Canadian laws and regulations. Obligations in the Government Procurement Chapter of the CETA will not force municipalities to privatize water distribution, nor prevent municipalities from setting standards to ensure that Canadians have access to safe drinking water. If public water treatment and distribution entities are covered under CETA, this simply means that any procurement of goods or services in support of the government ability to provide such water services would be required to follow the obligations of the chapter.

[Marianne Alto]

If you want me to go back to my city and give them reassurance about the efficacy of all that you've just said, the best thing you can do is give me the agreement to take with me.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Once it's translated.... We had the European ambassador here at our committee last week. They have to translate it into 23 different languages and—

[Marianne Alto]

I'd like to see the agreement and take it home with me, and then I'd be able to say to all my colleagues around the table, who are, by the way, of very different political stripes, that our concerns are unjustified. Just give me the agreement, and I'll be a happy person.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Once it's translated, including into both our official languages, there will be an opportunity. It's been tabled in the House of Commons. There's public debate. This isn't going to happen overnight. Going through the whole process will take a few more years. I just want to make sure you're comfortable knowing that it's not going to be rushed through and it's not going to be implemented by the time you get back home. There will be lots of opportunity to.... I appreciate your feedback.

[Marianne Alto]

That's good to hear.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Jeffery, we had a chance to meet before. The forest sector is a very strong component in my riding as well, in the Okanagan and Kelowna—Lake Country, with Tolko and other companies.

From your perspective, the value added is one component, but how do you see eliminating the barriers for both this agreement and the TPP with regard to the opportunities we've seen going into Asia and now into Europe, which is the fourth-largest market for B.C.?

[Rick Jeffery]

I think there are two elements to it, as I've said. One is eliminating the tariffs. Get that irritant off the table. That's nice. That goes to competitiveness right off the bat. The second thing is the non-tariff trade barriers or market access stuff. That's where we spend, as I said, far more of our time—not so much on the tariff schedules themselves, although they're problematic, but on phytosanitary issues, on lumber property issues, and on code issues and those kinds of things. Those are the ways you can try to inhibit our ability to have our products used in a country. If our products can't be used in the country, then we can't sell them there.

CETA provides a framework to deal with those non-tariff trade barriers. So when we look forward to the Japan agreement, the TPP agreement, those are the kinds of things we're looking for: transparency in the non-tariff world—so that people can't erect market-access barriers—and transparency in the tariff world.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Sandhu, the floor is yours, and we'll split the time remaining between you and Mr. Holder.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here today.

Mr. Jeffery, what is the dollar value of products you export to Europe right now?

[Rick Jeffery]

It's $304 million, and $127 million of that is softwood lumber. On the pulp and paper side it's $168 million of which $161 million is pulp, so there's a lot of pulp and not a lot of paper.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

How many jobs do you think will be created with the implementation of CETA ?

[Rick Jeffery]

I cannot give you an answer to that—we haven't done that analysis—but I would expect a positive employment impact.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Do you know how many would be on the coast?

[Rick Jeffery]

If we're driving 38,000 jobs, it would be somewhere north of that. It's hard to quantify that stuff prospectively. You need to kind of look at it and say, “Okay, well, what's the market there now? How does this increase our competitiveness? Where do we think market share could increase?” and then see how mills operate and adapt to that. Then you can start to put your job estimates towards it. But I'd say there's a positive job impact for several reasons: one, it's market diversification; two, it's market diversification into a high-value marketplace. If we get rid of tariffs on those higher-value products, then that—

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

You don't have any numbers, though?

[Rick Jeffery]

I don't at this point in time.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Councillor Alto pointed out that they haven't been consulted with regard to this deal. Has your association been consulted?

[Rick Jeffery]

Yes. We met regularly with the Province of British Columbia and the International Trade folks along the way to be briefed. We also met with DFATD officials along the way as well.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Were you asked to sign any confidentiality—

[Rick Jeffery]

Absolutely.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

And it was you who...?