International Trade Committee on April 26th, 2018

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We're going to move now to Ms. Ludwig to wrap up, for five minutes.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, all, for being here today.

I'm going to start my questions with the Canadian Association of Moldmakers. What is the training that's required? Is that a college diploma or a college degree? Is it an apprenticeship program?

[Timothy Galbraith]

High school and the skilled trades are the two things that we're looking for. You can get a job in our industry, like many, without much of an education, but if you wish to rise in the levels of technology, skilled trades, CNC machinist and mould-maker are two of the skilled trades that we are looking desperately to fill.

Jon and I both work very closely with the colleges to help promote that. We have a lot of tours from high schools and grade schools coming through our plants to tell them what the technology looks like. Modern manufacturing is not the sweatshop that they think it is, and we're actively encouraging anyone to come and have a look and see what we're about.

The government's been very good in providing opportunities to bring people who are disenfranchised into the learning stream and fulfilling the requirements that we have, because, honestly, people are our limitation right now. We'd grow faster and bigger if we had people, plain and simple.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Okay, great. Thank you.

Are you having discussions with the Association of Canadian Community Colleges as well?

[Timothy Galbraith]

Yes, absolutely.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Okay, excellent.

[Jonathan Azzopardi]

I'd like to add that we believe that working with the colleges is the key to our future. We need to continue to bring in good assets. We are highly educated and highly prepared. The faster they come to our plants and they're able to integrate into our systems, the faster they become an asset and become valuable and make us money.

I'd like to add to what Tim said. We also have high potential for growth within our company. Tim and I both come from the shop floor, which means you can start out with a college education, and with a low investment. We can actually show that these people are making six figures, because it's so performance-based and experience-based.

Contrary to somebody who has to get an education to be a doctor, we have shown that when people are coming out of school in our own industry, they're $180,000 ahead within year number two of somebody coming out with a university degree. That's $180,000, in our industry.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

That's really interesting, the opportunity cost of education. That's a whole other topic, but I fully understand that.

I'm wondering about the hours of work. Are they regular eight- to 12-hour schedules, or is it more shift work?

[Jonathan Azzopardi]

At our own plant, we run 24-7. As there is a lack of available labour, we take our efficiencies and move them as far as we possibly can.

That being said, we're actually as flexible as possible. We have introduced flex schedules into our own facility because these people are so personally driven. There's a high level of self-confidence and pride, so we allow flex schedules. I actually have people who start at 4:00, 6:00, and 7:00 in the morning who work till 2:00 or 3:30 in the afternoon, so there's a high level of flexibility. Yes, there's a high demand and there are many hours, but we're able to give flexibility.

We run 24-7, so we run what we call a weekend shift. Basically, we run three days and pay 48 hours and they only work 36 hours, which is great for single mothers who are trying to raise a family while also trying to pursue a career. We're able to give them five days off, when their children are normally in school, and then they work on the weekends, when they have better support structures. Our industry is highly technical, but highly experienced. It's able to flex with people's schedules.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you for sharing that because I was just wondering about the 3% of women in your field. When I had the opportunity to sit on the status of women committee, we learned that the greatest deterrent for women in trades and areas like yours is actually the hours of work and the unavailability of child care in the outside hours. I think that's an important way of increasing that.

My next question is for Ms. Palmater. In terms of consultation, I'm just going to go back to Mr. Hoback's question. Specifically, could you define what consultation means within the first nations community? Even in my riding, I heard that there was a really important project and the local government thought that they had consulted. The first nation chief came back and said, “That's not how we consult”. If you could help clarify what consultation, in a broader sense, means for first nations, that would be very helpful.

[Dr. Pamela D. Palmater]

I think the most important point is that there is no one-size-fits-all. How they want to be consulted is a question that has to be asked to the Mi'kmaq nation and Treaty 4 and the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. In fact, there are many first nations or aggregate groups of first nations across the country that actually have their own consultation protocols that say, “Here's how we actually want to work with you on a wide range of issues. Send us your information and we'll set up meetings.” The problem is that it doesn't happen. It's not for lack of trying and if you want to know how first nation consultations should take place in the different groups across the country, you should ask them.

The reality is, though, that it's been asked and answered and asked and answered and asked and answered, but the local officials don't abide by that. They abide by the default federal government position, which is to do the minimal and just have information sessions or not even that, in some cases. On free trade, it's been zero.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Just before we wrap up, I wanted to ask our friends from the mould-makers association a question. You talked about the difficulty in accessing the Brazilian market, but also the high potential. Talk to us about trade versus non-trade barriers. Are they mostly non-trade or are they around tariffs right now, in terms of the challenge of access?

Obviously, you would see those things being worked out to help you get access. As you said, you had access to a market like Mexico, which typically may have had lower wages. I would have thought that it would have been tougher to compete. Before we wrap up, can you talk about where you see the ability? Is it around non-tariff or tariff barriers for Brazil, for example, because that was one of the countries?

[Timothy Galbraith]

We expect to see both tariff and non-tariff barriers, but I would throw out the challenge that, if you get rid of the tariff barriers, we'll work on the other ones.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Is the biggest challenge right now the tariffs, though?

[Timothy Galbraith]

It's prohibiting us from entering the market right now.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

What are they like? Are they 30% or 40%?

[Timothy Galbraith]

They're a little less, but close.

[Jonathan Azzopardi]

We're experiencing about 35% tariffs. That's what we expect on manufactured goods. When that goes to zero, we will be able to compete at a different level and then, like Tim said, we'll need boots on the ground.

I'll be honest with you that we don't necessarily expect that we'll be establishing factories there, but we will be employing representatives and we will be going down there ourselves. If I were to give the government advice as a second step on this, we are going to need opportunities to do delegations and trade missions both ways—going there, coming here. We'll be looking forward to that and we'll be participating in that, so that we can actually create that education and awareness. Once we do that.... Tim was being quite honest. We are in the top three. We're the third, if not in the top two, for quality, which means we're competing with them and they will need our services because there are only two other countries to compete with.

If we are the first and we establish that beachhead, we'll be able to take full advantage of it.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Great.

To our witnesses, thank you very much for being here today.

With that, the meeting is adjourned.