Evidence of meeting #120 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Leigh Coulter  President, GGS Structures Inc.
Kalyan Ghosh  President and Chief Executive Officer, Essar Steel Algoma Inc.
David McHattie  Vice-President, Institutional Relations Canada, Tenaris
Terry Sheehan  Sault Ste. Marie, Lib.
Harold Albrecht  Kitchener—Conestoga, CPC

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Standing Committee on International Trade.

There was some big news over the weekend, as everybody knows. A lot of Canadians are breathing a sigh of relief right now.

Today, pursuant to a motion that we had, we're doing a study on the impact of tariffs on Canadian businesses. As we agreed, today we have witnesses with us. We're going to dialogue with our witnesses for an hour, and then we're going to go in camera on some future business.

Without further ado, welcome to our witnesses. Thank you for spending your precious time away from your businesses and organizations to be with us here today.

We have three groups: GGS Structures, Essar Steel Algoma and Tenaris. We usually try to keep it under five minutes for presentations so we can get lots of dialogue with the MPs. I always try to get whoever's on video conference to go first, in case we get a technical problem.

Ms. Coulter, you can give us your presentation, then we're going to go to the other witnesses, and then we'll have dialogue with MPs.

Go ahead.

11 a.m.

Leigh Coulter President, GGS Structures Inc.

Good morning. Thank you for inviting me to speak to you today on a topic that is of tremendous importance to our country's economic health and one that's very important to me and my employees.

I am the president and majority shareholder of GGS Structures Inc. We directly employ 80 people, most of whom live in the Niagara region. Additionally, we create jobs for construction contractors, heating installers and numerous Canadian companies that provide ancillary products that are required when new greenhouses are built, such as irrigation systems and environmental control computers.

From our factory in Ontario, we manufacture specialty prefabricated buildings that are designed to provide environments for customers to grow. Our product lines include greenhouses for agriculture, research facilities, fabric-covered buildings for riding arenas, livestock housing, salt dome storage, and recreational centres. While the majority of our customers are in agriculture, we also supply large multinational retailers and government agencies.

Almost 50% of our sales come from exports and the vast majority of that is to the U.S. Like many companies in the world today, we do business buying and selling all over the globe. Raw material and some finished goods that cross Canadian borders are further processed at GGS and then shipped all over Canada, to the U.S. and overseas. Our products are primarily made from steel and aluminum, with steel and aluminum purchases accounting for more than half of our total material costs.

Today, you have asked me to address the impact of the U.S. steel and aluminum tariffs and our countermeasures. This is what has happened to us this year.

First, when the U.S. government announced tariffs on several foreign steel suppliers, Canada responded in kind, by matching the U.S. tariffs for those countries, so that cheap steel would not divert to Canada, with the hope that would keep us in good standing with the ongoing NAFTA negotiations. The result was that Canadian steel suppliers increased their prices to benefit from their competitors sudden cost increases and the shortfall in supply. My Canadian tubing suppliers were not able to absorb the cost increases or get adequate local supply, so they raised their price to us. The price of steel at GGS has gone up four times this year, for a total 28% increase since January, and aluminum is up 9% in turn.

As my costs increased, so did the price our customers paid for their greenhouses, dairy barns and storage buildings. In turn, they increased the price of their goods, and on and on it went, as everyday Canadians have found that their food bills have increased significantly.

The Canadian greenhouse produce growers are under tremendous pressure to absorb cost increases, despite already low margins. They are concerned that continued tariffs would result in investment leakage to the U.S., which potentially could create a ripple effect that could threaten food security and sovereignty. Meanwhile, our European greenhouse manufacturing competitors are able to import their greenhouses to both Canada and the U.S., without the additional tariffs, making their products more affordable, as compared to ours.

Second, when the U.S. government included Canadian steel and aluminum in their tariffs, Canada responded in turn, by putting tariffs on U.S. steel and aluminum, as well as some other products. Due to the low Canadian dollar and our strong domestic supplier relationships, at GGS, we have been buying the majority of our steel and aluminum extrusions from Canadian manufacturers anyway, so we did not see a major impact from this.

However, for certain products where suppliers did have U.S. supply chains, we also saw increases over the summer. Furthermore, the tariffs on insecticides, fungicides and herbicides impacted many of our Canadian customers, who are smaller commercial growers, and this may affect their profitability and ability to expand their operations, which is a potential risk to my domestic market.

We have a new NAFTA, the USMCA. I have not yet researched the specifics of this agreement, though I understand that the steel and aluminum tariffs remain in place for the moment. Going forward, I would like our government to work diligently to remove the tariffs, and under no circumstances should they be expanded to a global supply.

The response to the U.S. tactics against Canadian steel and aluminum has been an appropriate countermeasure, limiting the response to U.S. goods. Primary steel producers will lobby to increase tariffs for their own self-interests, enabling them to increase prices further.

I petition you not to give in to this mentality, as the ripple effect of global tariffs would dramatically increase costs throughout the entire production chain, a cost increase that will weigh heavily on Canadian consumers in the end.

I hope my comments provide helpful context as the government makes determinations on how to move forward.

Thank you, and I look forward to the discussion.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you, Ms. Coulter. I'm very familiar with your product. I've built many greenhouses in Nova Scotia with your product, and they're all still standing. We're very familiar with your product.

We're going to move to our next group of witnesses from Essar Steel Algoma Incorporated. We have Kalyan Ghosh and Laura Devoni. You have the floor for five minutes.

11:10 a.m.

Kalyan Ghosh President and Chief Executive Officer, Essar Steel Algoma Inc.

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, thank you for the invitation to appear here today to speak about the impact of U.S. tariffs on Canadian businesses, companies and workers.

Today, I represent over 3,000 employees who work at Algoma in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario. Algoma has a long history in the city of Sault Ste. Marie as an integrated, primary steel producer. During the First World War, Algoma produced steel for artillery shells used by Canada and our allies. We were one of the largest steel producers in Canada during the Second World War. Today, Algoma produces sheet steel and plate for use in the automotive, energy and infrastructure and manufacturing industries. We are the only domestic plate manufacturer in the country, and our products have formed an integral part of major infrastructure projects from coast to coast for over a century.

Algoma steel plate is being used today to construct the Champlain Bridge in Montreal. We also play a significant role in the Soo as both an economic engine and a trusted community partner. We employ over 3,000 skilled workers and support a further 10,000 indirect jobs in the Soo. Our footprint represents over 40% of the city's GDP. We also support over 6,000 pensioners, the majority of whom reside in the region. Our payroll sits at around $300 million and we spend a further $1.2 billion annually on goods and services, of which about $120 million is spent with over 600 local suppliers.

U.S. President Donald Trump's announcement of 25% import tariffs on Canadian steel under section 232 of the Trade Expansion Act has had a significant impact on Algoma's exports to the U.S. In the short period of time these tariffs have been in place, we have seen a drop in exports to key states where we sell the majority of our products, such as Minnesota, Michigan, Illinois and others. The U.S. administration's actions are completely unjustified and are having an extremely damaging impact on the overall health of the Canadian steel industry and pose a significant threat to the long-term growth of companies like Algoma.

Canada and the U.S. have always enjoyed a balanced and complementary trade relationship in steel, founded on fair market principles embraced by both countries. In 2017, over 10 million tonnes of steel with a market value of over $12 billion was traded between our two countries. This is fair, equal and balanced on both sides of the border. Despite the challenge our industry is facing, we would like to applaud this government for acting swiftly and retaliating with their own set of tariffs on the U.S. and also for considering a safeguard process here in Canada. These measures provided vital life blood to our industry and have allowed us to sustain our businesses in the short term.

In the long run, however, the U.S. remains a critical export market for Canadian steel products, and we may find ourselves to be in a much more difficult situation in the near future as global prices on steel products are forecasted to drop significantly before they eventually stabilize. With that being said, we are encouraged with the new USMCA and the protection on auto tariffs it contains.

To conclude, Algoma wishes to continue to work closely with the Canadian government to secure a complete exclusion from section 232 for Canada. This is our number one priority. However, in the event that such an exclusion proves impossible to negotiate, we would recommend that the government explore a quota-based system in exchange for tariff exemption. This would not be an ideal scenario, but President Trump has indicated in the past and did so again yesterday, that this would be his preferred approach. In recent months, we have seen Argentina, Brazil and South Korea all accept quotas and limit their volumes of exports to the U.S. in exchange for tariff exemptions. It is our belief that a product-wise, company-based quota on steel should reflect historical exports to the U.S. It is imperative that the government manages the quota to avoid a rush to the border and negative market impacts. This formula has been used effectively by Canada for softwood lumber in the past, based on previous years' exports by producers.

Additionally, if Canada is able to negotiate a quota-based system similar to the model used for autos in USMCA, it will still provide sufficient growth opportunities.

Thank you very much for your time.

I'll be glad to take any questions.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you, sir, you're right on time.

We're going to go to Tenaris, and we have Mr. McHattie. Welcome again. You were here in the spring and you gave a wonderful presentation, so thanks for coming again. You have the floor.

11:15 a.m.

David McHattie Vice-President, Institutional Relations Canada, Tenaris

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to contribute to your study. It's an important one at a critical time in this industry for steelmakers, steel users and steel buyers.

I am responsible for institutional relations at Tenaris. I've worked at the company since the very beginning in Canada, almost 20 years now. Beyond Tenaris, I have responsibilities as vice-chair of the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters. I'm on the board of the Petroleum Services Association of Canada and chair of the Canadian Steel Producers Association's trade and public policy committee.

I'd like to give you some context about our company. We are one of the top steel companies in the world by market capitalization, and we're also one of the top oil field service companies in the world. We're a leader in steel pipe manufacturing and oil field services for energy development.

Energy development in Canada is an important market. We're the fourth-largest market in the world, and we're now the largest open market in the world. This isn't a market where foreign competitors are just going to send a little bit here or there. This is the next largest available market after the United States, so we're particularly vulnerable.

The products we manufacture are used for oil and gas extraction—this is casing and tubing—also line pipe that transports hydrocarbons from the well to processing facilities, and inside processing facilities like refineries, power generation and, very topical this week, LNG terminals.

Tenaris has three manufacturing facilities in Canada, and nine service locations.

Trade policy is one of the most important drivers of investment. I'd like to specifically address three critical issues.

We fully support the USMCA, and the combined efforts from all parties to obtain a solution, and support the ongoing work to obtain a full exclusion from the section 232 tariffs. Steel now remains the only outstanding issue in getting NAFTA back and working effectively as USMCA.

I'd like to discuss the safeguard investigation that is critical, with or without a section 232 resolution for Canada in the United States. I want to dispel some myths about a safeguard—that it is a remedy. It is a stabilizer. It's not an act of protectionism. We will grow to serve Canada's needs as market opportunities present themselves.

First is the USMCA. Thank you to all the parties that worked on this. This should allow the USMCA countries to now work together to tackle the most important issue in the steel industry today, and that is global overcapacity. We need to work on this. Governments have been coming together in all forms discussing it, but still with no tangible action.

We are in a very vulnerable position at this time. Chinese steel has an overcapacity of over 400 million metric tons, which is almost 30 times the size of the Canadian market. It also has an overcapacity in products made of steel, like the high value-added products used for energy development that we manufacture here in Canada.

To complete the work and truly align North America to take on the world, the last remaining aspect to address is finding a fair solution to the section 232 tariffs being applied to Canada. This should be one of the Canadian government's most important priorities.

We support the objective of demonstrating that a complete exclusion for Canada is deserving; however, inside the side letters on the USMCA may be a possible path to solution. The potential section 232 on autos, where 2.6 million units of cars are committed to versus the amount today, might provide a solution. I believe it's about a 40% potential growth opportunity; however, this is something that should be addressed. We as a leader in the steel industry are open to discuss with the Canadian government what strategies may or may not work for Canadian employees in this industry and the communities where we operate.

The devil is in the details, and we're here to help.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Can you please wrap up if you can?

Go ahead.

11:20 a.m.

Vice-President, Institutional Relations Canada, Tenaris

David McHattie

It will be very quick now.

Secondly, the safeguard is to defend Canadian jobs and it's urgent now.

In the nine months ending June 30, we have seen a 70% increase in the imports from non-USMCA destinations, 70% at a price that is significantly below the USMCA imports to Canada. This is a concern for us.

I'd like to be clear that a safeguard is necessary even if there is a solution for Canada on the section 232 tariffs. There are details I'm willing to discuss about how a safeguard mechanism needs to be structured to be effective; we have some views.

I'll make a final point that I hope reiterates that this is a stabilizing mechanism and will not result in a shortage of supply or a spike in prices. What a safeguard mechanism will do is bring back imports to the level that existed before there was a surge in imports. Bringing them back to that level allows the Canadian industry and the people who we employ to be back to work. There will be no shortage of supply. As an industry of energy tubulars today, we're at 50%. There will be no price spike in the market, because we're just bringing things back to where they were before.

I reiterate that we are thankful for the work done so far and we're looking forward to seeing an investigation on a safeguard so that we can have the facts evaluated and get our people in the communities across the country back to work.

Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you, sir.

Before we start the dialogue with the MPs, I welcome two visiting MPs: Mr. Albrecht from Ontario and Madame Boucher from Quebec.

For the questioning, I'm going to try to get all the MPs in. I'm going to keep it strictly to five minutes. So that we can get through this and everybody can have their five minutes, try not to load a question up at the end.

Without further ado, Mr. Carrie, you are starting off for the Conservative Party. Go ahead, sir.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I really want to thank the witnesses for being here today. Some of you were here earlier in the spring and it really is an opportunity for us to get an idea of what the effect has been on the ground.

The chair said he heard a sigh of relief when the deal was announced this week, but I didn't hear that same sigh. Maybe it was a bit of a sucking sound of concern about jobs leaving the country if we don't get things in order.

I want to start off with Ms. Coulter.

It seems to be quite clear that you're just seeing increases in prices. Is there anything in the agreement this week that you see is there for you, that has made this a better situation for your company?

When we were here in the spring, we all thought that if we got an agreement with the United States, these tariffs would go away. What has happened is that the government has failed to even have a timeline where these tariffs can go away. Some of the companies we talked to earlier had a very short timeline in terms of when it was going to affect them perhaps with job losses and things such as that.

Can you comment on whether there is anything that is going to help your competitiveness in the market today with the agreement earlier this week?

11:20 a.m.

President, GGS Structures Inc.

Leigh Coulter

First, unfortunately, I really haven't had the time to get into all the details on the agreement, but the major concern that I had was the steel and aluminum tariffs, which are still there.

At this moment, it hasn't affected our sales to the U.S. We don't sell the raw materials, so we're not under the tariff codes right now that are being hit. However, it is of significant concern that it's still there, and as you said, there's no timeline for it to end.

That's what I feel we need to focus on now.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

You also mentioned your suppliers. You said some of the costs for steel were up 28%, and I think aluminum was up 8%, and there is this cascade of food bills going up.

With your suppliers and the smaller players in the industry, the government actually set out a plan where there was going to be some type of relief. Have you heard of any of this relief trickling down, especially to the small suppliers and the small industry players?

11:25 a.m.

President, GGS Structures Inc.

Leigh Coulter

I have not.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Okay.

The next question is for Algoma. Again, with this agreement we were hoping to see Canada get something. It seems we've given things away, and the government is saying this is a great deal based on what we didn't have to give away, whereas the Americans—I think it was Larry Kudlow—said Canada gave graciously. It seems we gave and didn't get a lot back.

One of the things we thought...and the Buy American part of the agreement is still in. You mentioned that your company is very much interested in infrastructure and such things. Did you expect there would be some movement in the Buy American part of the agreement? Do you see anything in the agreement this week that allows you to be more competitive?

October 2nd, 2018 / 11:25 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Essar Steel Algoma Inc.

Kalyan Ghosh

First of all, let me say that I don't have a real understanding of the agreement. We do supply some percentage of our steel to the auto industry, and from what I could understand from the part of the letter on the auto industry, there is an expansion scope, which would definitely benefit Algoma.

Regarding Buy American, yes, that would have helped the steel industry overall, but I think most important here is that we either get into a tariff-free situation or a quota-based system, which also would work for us.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

When you're talking about free trade agreements, it's usually a tariff-free situation. I think there was a lot of disappointment that these section 232 tariffs are remaining, and the concern is that there's no timeline. The Americans could maintain these tariffs for a significant amount of time.

I was wondering if you had any insight on some of the smaller players, maybe players that you work with. There was a package put out by the government to give some relief. Has Algoma been able to access some of this? The big players seem to have some access, but have you heard anything from the smaller businesses?

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Make it a very short answer.

11:25 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Essar Steel Algoma Inc.

Kalyan Ghosh

We are thankful to the government for the $250-million SIF announcement, and Algoma has put in the intent to apply and will be applying in the next few days to make the steel plant more sustainable in the future.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you, sir.

We're going to move to the Liberals.

Mr. Sheehan, you have the floor.

11:25 a.m.

Terry Sheehan Sault Ste. Marie, Lib.

Thank you very much to all our presenters, and thank you for your continued contributions to strengthening Canada's response to dumped steel. We've been at this for years now, and you've given us your perspective time and again, either at the steel committee or at this committee or others. I think we're in a much better place than we were 10 years ago.

My question is for David. Could you describe how critical some of the trade remedy systems that have been put in place over the last two or three years are today in fighting against dumped steel and strengthening our system? Could you also talk about some of the investments we have made, including investments to the CBSA?

Then from there, jump to why we continue to need—and I picked up on your comment—safeguarding, not just whilst these tariffs are here, in place by the Americans, but also after they're lifted.

11:25 a.m.

Vice-President, Institutional Relations Canada, Tenaris

David McHattie

Certainly, I think good trade requires good, strong rules. Even though we are good friends, having rules is very important. I think we'll see economic growth from having a USMCA, and that's good for most people in the industry.

The important resources that have been added to the CBSA will be one of the most fundamental changes we will see in the next couple of years as they come up to speed and are able to discipline those exporters that are exporting to Canada unfairly. As I said earlier, overcapacity is a critical challenge in the industry. There are many countries and many exporters that are seeking out wealthy and stable economies like Canada's as a market, and they exploit our market with unfairly traded goods.

Having resources at the border through CBSA is an important mechanism. They are already reinvestigating some of these exporters that have been found to be unfairly exporting to make sure that the normal values are effective and at the right level, because raw materials for steelmaking and steel costs around the world have gone up, yet the normal values for these steel products did not change. That gave them an opportunity to sell unfairly in the Canadian market.

To transition to what we need in the future, with the speed at which things change we need governments to react quickly. Fourteen months to negotiate this agreement is great. We've recognized the safeguard, and I believe we need to see that investigation as soon as possible. Every week that it's delayed it is costing our people in our communities.

11:30 a.m.

Sault Ste. Marie, Lib.

Terry Sheehan

Kalyan, you started talking about the strategic innovation fund that was announced—to use your words—after Canada's swift response with the counter-tariffs, dollar for dollar. Could you please describe the SIF program in a little more detail, in the sense of what a steel company could use the $250-million specific carve-out to the steel industry for, and how it might strengthen you going forward for future years?

11:30 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Essar Steel Algoma Inc.

Kalyan Ghosh

We are applying to get some capex dollars, primarily to make our steel plant more efficient, more productive, and in the process, more sustainable in the future.

11:30 a.m.

Sault Ste. Marie, Lib.

Terry Sheehan

Will that enable you to hire more people, potentially?

11:30 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Essar Steel Algoma Inc.

Kalyan Ghosh

No, it's not for hiring. It's basically for modernizing so that we can produce different grades of steel, which will be used for building the navy ships or bridges and other things, which at the moment are not made in Canada. We would be able to make it in the future.