International Trade Committee on April 2nd, 2019

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We'll go over to the Conservatives now. They are also splitting their time.

Mr. Sopuck and Mr. Berthold, you're on.

To start off, Mr. Sopuck.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thanks.

Ms. Mithani, you said something that really stuck out to me. Did you say that the canola testing methodologies are different between Canada and China?

That's just a simple yes or no.

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

I said maybe. We are not sure.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Okay.

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

That's the exchange of information. The interpretation of data is also different. There's the interpretation of data and some of the methodologies may be different.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I get it.

I was shocked by that statement, absolutely shocked, because the essence of the scientific process is replicability. If the two methodologies are different, the Chinese will have an out every single time.

What are you going to do if the Chinese use the excuse that their methodology shows that our canola is substandard, and then you say...? Then we get into a he said, she said thing.

Why haven't we pursued the notion that the testing systems have to be identical?

My questions are for the ministers.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

We have to rely on a rule-based trading order. This is very important. It's the same not only for Canada and China. We are having these discussions; it's not the first time that we have to enter into a technical and scientific discussion with another country to compare notes. It happens all the time between scientists.

There's no very clear answer to your question. It's a normal process. We have to go to the end of it. To do that, we have to have face-to-face meetings between scientists. Then they can challenge themselves.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Just really quickly though, if the presence or absence of weed seeds, for example, is one of the things that they allege, that's very easy.

How can there be a difference in testing processes to determine if a weed seed is present or not?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I understand that there's also the risk aversion.

Maybe you can complement on that?

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

As far as the interpretation of the weed seeds is concerned, it's actually based on photographs. It's the photographs that people look at. It's the interpretation. That's one.

The second is that, when you look at detection methods, for example, we have no information about how many samples they've tested or how many weeds they've seen per sample. That is another one.

The third thing is that they've talked about bacteria that they have seen present. They've reported a presence. We haven't. We've asked for their methodology. We are currently looking at that methodology. We are trying to replicate what they've done. The studies are still ongoing.

So, that's—

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Okay. Thanks.

I'll turn it over to my colleague.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Bibeau, first I'd like to congratulate you on your appointment as Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food. My questions won't take long.

Obviously, I'd like you to appear before the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food as soon as possible to discuss this issue, in particular, the market concerns of Canadian farmers. Your timely appearance before that committee would be very appreciated.

If I understood correctly, you said you didn't anticipate the matter being resolved in the very near future.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I don't believe I said that. We're doing everything we can to get the matter resolved as quickly as possible. Obviously, it's a two-way street.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

The Chinese government hasn't responded to your letter yet. Is that right?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

No, but there is some follow-up happening. Officials from both countries met in Italy, if I'm not mistaken.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

This morning, CFIA representatives told the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food that discussions were taking place regularly to resolve the technical or scientific problem with China, but that the Chinese weren't making nearly as much of an effort as usual.

You being the minister, I would think not having an ambassador is probably a challenge. You said that Ms. Freeland is in charge of the talks with China on this issue. Is that still the case?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes, it's still Ms. Freeland. Ultimately, the Prime Minister is the one who appoints ambassadors, of course.

Since the beginning, as Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, I've been making every effort to find a science-based solution. At the same time, work is happening on various fronts. Minister Carr is working on the market diversification and trade piece.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Has Ms. Freeland spoken to the Chinese government about the canola crisis?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

No. Our goal right now is to keep the discussion on a scientific level. We don't want to add to the anxiety or speculation on the issue.

The Chinese officials are faulting our product for being of lower quality than it should be or of lower quality than they were expecting. Keeping the discussion focused on that is key. Otherwise, we would just be making the situation worse and running the risk of derailing any progress, something we absolutely don't want to do.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Mr. Berthold.

[Jim Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I would just add, Chair, if I could for two seconds—

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Just a quick response, then.

[Jim Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Jim Nickel is the acting ambassador of Canada in Beijing. He's very senior—you know of him—and a very competent and able public servant. He is leading on-the-ground initiatives on behalf of Canada in Beijing now.