International Trade Committee on April 9th, 2019

[Kyle Jeworski]

For me the key piece is that the buyer and the seller have clearly defined rules that both need to honour. We trade with very strict trade rules, and should there be a dispute, there are mechanisms to resolve that dispute.

The challenge we have with issues such as the one in China is with government interfering and creating non-tariff trade barriers. That takes it beyond the buyer and the seller and escalates it to the government-to-government level.

We have sound science and some of the best scientific work in the world, but the challenge is that we have countries that are not honouring that science base, which again results in this escalation to the government level.

To me it's key that the government be very active with other governments in trying to mitigate the issues that are related to the non-tariff trade barriers that are being put up these days by a number of countries.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Your time is pretty well up.

I will just remind MPs—especially when we have video conferencing—to tell us who you want to answer the question.

We're going to move to the NDP now. Ms. Ramsey, you have the floor.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Thank you all for being here during a very difficult time. This is a very serious issue that the NDP takes seriously. We're hopeful that the government will start to move on it because time is of the essence—which we heard from you, talking about Mr. McClean being a few weeks away from seeding and the significant investments that you've already put into this year's season. It's not something you can roll back the clock on at this point. We really do hope there are some measures that are put in place to help you.

One of our members, Niki Ashton, is a member of Parliament for northern Manitoba. She expressed to me how worried she is for northern communities. I represent a rural riding, but in southwestern Ontario. We grow everything but canola. I recognize that northern and remote communities are especially vulnerable and farmers in those areas will be in difficult positions, too.

Mr. Ruest, you said in your opening remarks that the issue here is how we can get to the bottom of the contaminant allegations. I'd like to hear from you about how you think we'd go about doing that. Secondary to that, what has the government told you that they're moving on in response to how you think we come to an end to this?

[Jean-Marc Ruest]

For the resolution on the technical side of things, I think one of the key components that's required is a willing partner to have a discussion with and with whom to exchange information. That requires confirmation of engagement and engagement in good faith. I think that means, as well, agreeing on a reasonable time frame to conduct the review that is required. I'm not privy to the extent to which those conversations have happened. I understand that attempts have been made to engage with the Chinese technical experts. I'm not close enough to the situation to know how much further it's gotten beyond that.

In my view, engagement or failure to engage ought to be measured by the ability to reach a conclusion within a set time frame. I think we have to understand what is a fair time for people acting in good faith to review the evidence and come to a conclusion on that.

I would suggest that the absence of being able to either meet that time or even being able to agree on the process is a sign of not being prepared to address the issue meaningfully.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Have any of you heard from the minister or from the government that they will agree to a specific timeline, or that they will talk about some concrete steps that can be taken?

[Jean-Marc Ruest]

I'm not aware of a specific timeline having been agreed to.

[Bernie McClean]

Not currently.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Viterra?

[Kyle Jeworski]

I'm not aware of any timeline.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Could you describe to us the level of communication that you're having with the government around this right now? It's such a serious issue, as my colleague raised. It's not something we've heard the government really speaking about. We've attempted in the NDP, along with other opposition parties, to bring this to the House. I'm just wondering if you could tell us what your communication level is with the government right now.

[Jean-Marc Ruest]

I do have to give credit to the departmental officials whom we've spoken with from the market access secretariat and Global Affairs, etc., who have been very open and very willing to speak with us. They have reached out to discuss with us.

A strategic working group has been created, of which both we and Viterra are members. We've had a first meeting of that group. I don't think the subject matter of those discussions is open to public disclosure. I think we understand this is a tough issue to deal with. From a communication and openness perspective, we have had a good back-and-forth with the government officials.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Mr. McClean, you mentioned AgriStability. Could you speak about some of the other programs that you feel the government could implement immediately to offer some supports to farmers other than expanding the application process for AgriStability? What other tools could the government implement right now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

It will have to be a short answer, please.

[Bernie McClean]

Absolutely. Rick and I talked about it, and the advance payments program looks like one that will be very easy to implement some changes to quickly. Premier Moe from Saskatchewan has addressed it and brought it forward. We agree that we could probably work within those confines and bring that program into today's day. On larger farms, that will help to address some of the on-farm stored grain. Possibly looking at the 2018 advances that are still there and allowing those advances to be paid off without proof of sale would help producers to roll into the 2019 advance and be able to take full advantage of that, especially at an expanded amount.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you.

We're going to move over to the Liberals again. Mr. Dhaliwal, you have the floor.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the presenters.

As all of you have said, there's a sense of urgency and this is a very important issue, particularly to western Canada.

My question is to all of you. Are you aware that Minister Bibeau has communicated with Minister Ni and that a letter from the president of the CFIA to her counterpart at the General Administration of China Customs has been delivered, and that they're trying to figure out a face-to-face meeting?

[Jean-Marc Ruest]

I was made aware there have been high-level government communications by the Canadian government to the Chinese officials, but at a very high level. I'm not aware of the contents or the specifics.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

The minister in fact has written to Minister Ni and is waiting from the response from that side.

Besides that, because I'm an engineer, I look at things as black and white. In terms of scientists in Canada and scientists in China, I'm sure two plus two is four in Canada, but when we go to some other countries, two plus two can be five, right?

Is there something that you are not saying? You are all mentioning science-based evidence and you say you've had a relationship for over 100 years, and our scientists, and the canola is the best quality we have. However, now we are facing this issue. Do you believe the decisions of scientists in Canada and the decisions from the scientists in China are at par?

[Jean-Marc Ruest]

There's a disconnect somewhere. The question really is, what is the basis for that disconnect?

We are confident with the results on the quality of our commodity. No such issues have arisen with China for as long as we've been exporting to China, and none have arisen from any other customers around the world, including the ones most sensitive to quality issues, including the Japanese marketplace, from testing and retesting.

We're very comfortable with the soundness of our product and our test results. China says they have an issue with it, so we need to get to the bottom of it.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Mr. White.

[Rick White]

I would just echo what Jean-Marc said. There is a discrepancy between what our scientists tested versus what Chinese officials tested. We need to get those people together, talk about the technicalities of the test, do a joint testing of samples that are common and agree on what's in there and what's not. If they don't agree, then we are into a different realm.

I have a lot of faith in our Canadian system and our product, so at that point in time, if the scientists can't agree, we'll just call it a non-tariff trade barrier and we're into a different scenario.

That should not take very long.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

On the question to Viterra, on the one hand I'm seeing the members on the other side saying the government is not doing anything. On the other hand, when I was listening to you, you said the federal government has been engaged from the very beginning.

I would like to hear your comments.

[Kyle Jeworski]

The federal government has reached out to Viterra directly at many different levels, right from the onset, when the announcement was made on March 26 that our export ability was restricted. Various areas of government, from agriculture to trade to foreign affairs, both at the ministerial level and throughout, have reached out to us. The communication was there from the onset. That's throughout our organization.

The communication started early and it has continued. As Jean-Marc mentioned, we are on the working group as well with Richardson International. Therefore, communication from the government has definitely been taking place.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

We all understand on this side and the other side, and on the U.S. industry side as well, that it has to be settled at the highest level and as soon as possible.

So far, with the steps the government has taken, do you think we're heading in the right direction?