International Trade Committee on May 13th, 2016

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Just to remind everybody, this is like the House of Commons here.

[Malcolm Buchanan]

No, the question is, do we like to pick winners? Absolutely, but in our pension plan, we make sure they're ethical investments.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

I see the lady waving her hands in the back, and I appreciate that.

Could I go through every one of those investments, and would I find some that might—and this is another trick question—disagree with your position, and say, “Jeez, Mr. Buchanan, we really needed this TPP agreement”? Do you think that might be possible?

[Malcolm Buchanan]

From my position, I would say no, and if they disagree, maybe they're wrong.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

That's good.

All right, I'm going to go to Mr. Wildeboer.

I wonder if you could tell us a little about your business. When did you say it was first started?

[Rob Wildeboer]

We became an auto parts company in 2001.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Who started the business?

[Rob Wildeboer]

I'm one of the co-founders, with two other people who came from Magna.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Congratulations. You had an idea. You had a vision.

How many hours did you work when you first started?

[Rob Wildeboer]

It's hard to put it in hours. I was asked that question. You're on 24/7. You're always thinking about it. Even when you're sleeping, you go to sleep because you're tired, you sleep like a baby, and then you wake up paranoid about the next thing you have to do.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Why in the world would you do it? I'm just curious about it.

[Rob Wildeboer]

I have a tremendous faith in our ability to compete. I've been working on entrepreneurial ventures all my life. I worked at starting a law firm, advised a lot of people, and then thought I'd do it. At first blush, we felt the world and North America needed strong auto parts suppliers. We thought that a lot of our competitors in the United States were suffering from too much debt, the wrong places, and old ways of doing things. We—along with the folks at Magna, the folks at Linamar, and a number of other Canadian suppliers that are private companies, perhaps not as well-known—thought we had a good opportunity to be part of the North American market. There are no customers with head offices in Canada, but we've had tremendous success working with those international folks.

In order to do that, we had to be in the jurisdictions they are and grow, but we also had to be in Canada. We thought it was an advantage to be in Canada, because we have five major international auto companies with head offices in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, sir.

I am sorry, Mr. Van Kesteren. Your time is up.

We are moving on to the Liberals for five minutes. Ms. Ludwig, you are ready to go.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you all for being here. I really want to put this in context, in terms of my position and our government's position. It is for us to be listening, consulting, and gathering your perspectives and experiences because, as Canadians, that is the ultimate of what we do as government representatives—represent you. Thank you so much for taking the time and sharing your passion and your expertise.

This is the sixth province we have visited, and I really want to try to get this balanced out, or get a broader perspective. Listening to each of the panellists, certainly our first three panellists—thank you—and our fourth panellist from a business perspective.... How do you reconcile that in terms of job potential and job losses? We heard from the farming communities and their associations in the west. Their concern is that if the TPP is not ratified, there will be significant job losses, well in excess of what they would be if it was ratified.

Not ratifying the TPP.... Would you please give me your perspective on how you think that might affect your company? If it is not ratified, how would you move forward in a non-member country of that agreement?

[Dr. Joel Lexchin]

I am going to talk only about pharmaceutical issues. From that perspective, the TPP is going to have potential negative effects—we really won't know until the disputes start and we see how it is going to be interpreted—on both prices and regulations. For instance, a colleague and I did calculations on the effects of CETA, the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement with the European Union. We calculated that by 2023, overall drug expenditures in Canada would go up between 6% and 12%. Currently, we are spending $29 billion, so it would go up between $2 billion and $3.2 billion, if we looked at today's situation. Similarly, with respect to regulation, the drug companies in the United States and Japan are pushing to get drugs through the approval process faster. From previous research that I have done, faster approval means more safety problems once the drugs are on the market.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Would you be able to submit that report to the committee?

[Dr. Joel Lexchin]

Which one?

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

The one where you look at the forecasted drug costs under CETA.

[Dr. Joel Lexchin]

Sure.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you very much.

Other panellists?

[Prof. David Schneiderman]

I will provide a very short answer. The investment chapter will not create Canadian jobs, nor will it result in a reduction. In fact, the TPP, as you all know, is about much more than trade. That is why I began by saying that we can safely do without an investment chapter. Now, withdrawing an investment chapter from a negotiated agreement is difficult, but there is certainly a movement afoot to abandon ISDS and replace it with something else.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Is there any investment chapter from previous agreements that you do think is a good example?

[Prof. David Schneiderman]

The Canadian model is mirroring NAFTA since 1994. The previous model was state-to-state. The question is whether we should be conferring these rights—special rights, privileged rights—on investors. That is what this investment chapter is about, and I think the committee's task is to weigh the costs and benefits of that.

[Malcolm Buchanan]

Are you aware of the Tufts University study on potential job loss?