International Trade Committee on Sept. 27th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Excuse me, Mr. Ritz, your time is up. I know you're on a roll, but we have to move to the Liberals. Maybe we can get some more in later on.

We're going to move to Ms. Ludwig.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Good morning.

Thank you very much for your presentations. Your comments and concerns and opportunities definitely tie in with many of the other consultations that we've had across the country, and in particular, a meeting with the New Brunswick contacts yesterday.

To what extent have P.E.I. organizations been previously involved with consultations in regard to the TPP?

It's an open question for all of you.

[Ronald Maynard]

We've worked through our national organization, the Dairy Farmers of Canada, of course, which has been very involved. Mr. Ritz has seen our faces a number of times in his former portfolio. We've been continuing to work with the present government on an ongoing basis. That's a national organization, so we're members of that organization.

[Reg Phelan]

Yes, we've worked nationally. I think we made presentations to this committee before, in western Canada. We're also quite involved here in the other trade.... We're also part of a trade justice group in P.E.I., in which there are quite a few organizations involved. We've also been involved in forums on trade issues. We've been trying to educate people about it and hear what the issues are. It's an ongoing debate here.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Ms. Robinson and Mr. Godfrey.

[Mary Robinson]

Our input has been at the Canadian federation level. In terms of direct contribution from the P.E.I. federation to the federal government, this is our first.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

In terms of our consultations, what we've been hearing is certainly very important, because we're hearing from coast to coast to coast. If there is ever an opportunity for this to be reopened for changes, we certainly have gathered significant input from across the country. We've heard comments from witnesses regarding innovation, identifying new markets, trade training, the concerns about export, and we've heard concerns about Canadian sovereignty, climate change, and human rights.

My second question is for the Dairy Farmers. Looking forward in helping mitigate risk, can you tell me the situation with your milk-processing plant in Sussex?

[Ronald Maynard]

The processing plant in Sussex is Dairytown. It's a powder plant. It's 50 years old. It is the plant of last resort in the Atlantic provinces. It is past its prime, of course, and we need a new plant to handle the surplus milk that we have at certain times of the year, as well as ongoing opportunities. Dairy is more and more an ingredient base. We produce milk, but protein and fat and lactose and many other constituents have now.... Milk is now “mined”, as they say. We need a plant that will produce that in the Atlantic provinces, so we can market our product to what the customer is looking for.

Assistance would be helpful in convincing the processor to move to building a new plant in the Atlantic provinces.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Is there any product adaptation being done in the dairy sector here in P.E.I., or even in the Atlantic region, to adapt to new markets for export?

[Ronald Maynard]

What I've just said is that the opportunity there is in the ingredients. Mr. Ritz talked about opportunities as far as the cheese goes. Cheese is our main product here on Prince Edward Island, and we are looking at opportunities in that market for specialty cheese. There's also the artisan cheese. There are a couple here on Prince Edward Island that have started. They're small. They probably will not be export people, but direct marketers.

That's the innovation that's on Prince Edward Island.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

My next question is regarding succession planning. In terms of the agricultural sector as a whole here in P.E.I.—

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

I'm sorry, you only have five seconds left, so I don't think it's going to be fair to the witness to throw in that question. Maybe we'll get around to it.

We're going to move to the NDP now. Ms. Ramsey, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Thank you so much for your presentations. I think you've mapped out very well that this trade agreement has a huge price to pay for dairy. One of the first presenters that we had at committee was the Canadian Dairy Association. To me, it's astonishing that we're talking about opening up our dairy market to potentially huge losses that the $4.3 billion won't sustain past 15 years with the loss of family farms. I'm from a rural riding. I understand the impact of that. I think most Canadians would be shocked to know that this is what is being discussed in the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

I want to speak to something Mr. Godfrey said about the economic impact study. The $4.3 billion that's being predicted by the government currently is over 24 years. If they give the $4.3 billion over 15 years to dairy, we're in a loss. We have been pushing very hard on the government to come forward with whether they're going to honour the previous Conservative amount that was offered to dairy farmers with the understanding that that's not enough to sustain the industry going into the future.

These are dairy farms, I can assume, like mine in my riding, that have been here for hundreds of years, a hundred-plus years, as long as Confederation or before, as we learned happened here in P.E.I. There is a great price to pay in supply management in our agricultural sector for access to what appears to be one market, Japan. We're entering into this agreement where we'll see incredible losses in all of our communities that will ripple out.

I want to ask you how losing 10 farms in a province the size of P.E.I. would impact your community. What would that look like? I know spin-off jobs exist in my five municipalities that are based on farming. It would devastate my region to lose 10 farms.

[Ronald Maynard]

Any time that you take jobs from a rural economy, it has a dramatic effect. There's not another job. You're not in downtown Toronto where there's probably another job to be had. If the job in the dairy farm is gone, the people are gone also. It has a ripple effect most certainly on the economy.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

My next question is about the non-tariff barriers, because we're already 97% tariff-free with TPP countries. There are some tariff reductions that will happen. I know some of them are in potato farming, but I wonder if you could speak further to what non-tariff barriers exist with the countries in the TPP for your farming in potatoes here in P.E.I., as it's your number one commodity.

[Mary Robinson]

I'll start, and Robert can finish until Mark cuts us off.

I know in my lifetime as an adult working on our farm, I've seen us go through the process of PVY N. I've also seen wart, and we also had the twist of the needles in the last couple of years. Each of these issues creates an opportunity for our largest trade partner to deem our products a risk to their industry, so they close the border to us. A lot of the times from our perspective it's incredibly unfair because they say, “You have PVY N; we're closing you down”, but they haven't done any testing on their side. It's like saying you're not pregnant while never having taken a pregnancy test. It's incredibly unfair and it's the low-lying fruit. It's a great way to shut down trade and, because our products are fairly highly perishable, it really cripples us.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

We've heard it repeatedly here at committee. I know there is a committee that will be established in the TPP, but what we've heard from other sectors is there's no strength to it. There are no teeth to it. There's no ability or process within it to actually address the issue. Just simply, there will be a committee to talk about them.

I think that, on the whole, we need to look at trade remedies for the non-tariff barriers that can become huge issues when you're looking at trading with other countries.

Do I still have time? I'm trying to rush through because we never have time.

The diafiltered milk is obviously an issue that we've been facing here. We just had some hearings. This is another really serious issue. I know that we're here today to talk about the Trans-Pacific Partnership, but what we're talking about essentially is now opening our market to the U.S. in a further way. Diafiltered milk is one way that we have milk proteins coming into the country nefariously. I'm wondering what other challenges you see coming forward with the U.S. market.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Sorry, Ms. Ramsey, but you used up all your time with your introduction and now your time is up.

I might seem like the tough guy here, but we've been doing pretty well. I don't know if it's the air in P.E.I., but MPs are just on a roll here today. I'd like to get every MP to be able to have their five minutes in so I have to be pretty close with the clock.

I will now move to Madam Lapointe, for five minutes.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Good morning and welcome.

I am pleased to see that a woman took charge of the family business and that this is the sixth generation. I am very pleased about that. It is very good.

I listened to your comments, which were all very interesting. However, as Ms. Ramsey said, we only have five minutes.

Earlier, you said that you were very concerned that the trans-Pacific partnership may be signed without Canada's participation.

Prince Edward Island has problems with the dairy products, but overall, would signing the TPP be beneficial for the province?

For all the products, would it represent an increase in exports?

[Robert Godfrey]

I think the perils of not signing and being outside the world's largest market outweigh the issues that we've outlined.

As I've said, PEIFA has the very same position you do. We represent both offensive and defensive interests, and as a whole, we are in support of signing this agreement.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

So that means you are hoping that we sign the trans-Pacific partnership.

[Robert Godfrey]

Yes.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay. Thank you.

If the agreement were not ratified, with which countries would you like us to sign a free trade agreement?

[Robert Godfrey]

Obviously, we would keep the free trade agreements we have with the U.S. and Mexico, which are our two largest. There are large benefits for our beef and pork sectors, in particular in Japan. There are opportunities in Australia and New Zealand as well, but I don't think it's any secret—as Ms. Ramsey already pointed out—that Japan holds an awful lot of potential for us.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Phelan, you said that the consumption of milk per capita was declining.

Aren't derivative products, such as yogurt and cheese, on the rise per capita?