International Trade Committee on Sept. 28th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you. We're well over our time.

We're going to move over to our last MP today, Mr. Van Kesteren.

Go ahead, sir.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Taylor. I was just thinking that in all my years, I don't think we've had only one witness—aside from possibly a minister—and you've handled yourself very well, sir. I thought we were going to run out of questions, but each one of us has had some issues that we wanted you to address, and you've done very well.

I might add, too, that for a mainlander, you've done the island proud, so congratulations.

[Ron Taylor]

Thank you. I like living in Newfoundland. I tell people it has added years to my life.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Yes, terrific.

I'm looking at the different groups you represent and thinking about wireless, the advantage that you have here, the need to produce that, and the market that was here. Obviously the mother of invention is need itself. There are lots of countries in the world, and I'm thinking that this might be a really great opportunity. I'm thinking about places like Vietnam, that don't have the infrastructure, and some of these other third world countries. The world is just an open field for you.

I'm sure you've thought about that. Maybe you can just share that with the committee.

[Ron Taylor]

I can remember when I moved here 12 years ago, people said to me, “You've worked all over the world. Why would you go to Newfoundland?” My answer was that was where the opportunities were. There are some great things happening here.

If you talk about wireless technology, for instance, wireless power, a lot of our stuff goes under the water. Traditionally, even for things like the ocean gliders, their weak points were where things connected, because of corrosion. You don't have that when it's all housed. You reduce that risk quite a bit.

Even from a standpoint of just looking at what's on your desk today, look at how many wires connect everything. Coming up with a way to wirelessly power things and recharge things is the future. Goodness gracious, any of us can look behind our desks today and see what's there in terms of wiring. It's unreal.

We have a world leader company here, Solace Power, that has the attention of people like Boeing. They are doing things with the U.S. military. Think about the average soldier out there. As I understand it, they carry about 25 pounds of battery packs on them. Being able to jump into a vehicle where all they are wearing is wirelessly powered, when it goes to the next location, whether that be a truck, a car, or a ship, and getting off there and being automatically re-powered up, is pretty incredible stuff. We're doing that here.

One of the things people are surprised by when they come here, and they are blown away by, is the fact that we are a world leader in ocean technology here. We're very successful at it. We're doing some world-class things in fraud, money laundering, terrorism, and movement of capital. These things exist here, and the sector as a whole has done incredibly well.

I talk about doubling it again in 10 years' time. I sat in a room last night with 130 young people who wanted to do technologies that go into the health care system, and the stuff that they're already working on themselves is mind-blowing. I'm always amazed about Newfoundland and Labrador, how innovative our society is, how entrepreneurial it is, and the fact that in such a small population we have so much talent here on the ground. It's one of the things that brought me here, and it's certainly one of the things that keeps me here.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

That's an exciting story, and that leads me to my final point. We all search for critical mass. It sounds like this has become an incubator for that kind of movement: wow. Maybe you want to comment on that. Do you envision a time when Newfoundland and Labrador may become like the Silicon Valley, only for a whole new set of technologies that will to propel Canada in the future?

[Ron Taylor]

We're trying to create that kind of environment here. I think if you looked at Newfoundland and Labrador in a traditional sense, it was heavily reliant on the natural resources that we have. Natural resources are cyclical. They come and they go, and the price points fluctuate. All we have to do is look at what's happened to the oil and gas over the last couple of years.

The great thing about the technology sector, where we're selling knowledge, is that we are not disadvantaged here. The growth for the advanced technology sector and all the things that go with it is endless. It's growing exponentially. Newfoundland, being an island, perhaps does inhibit us sometimes. It isn't easy to move things off and on here. But with technology, we don't have any of those impediments. We are no more advantaged or disadvantaged being here in Newfoundland than in Toronto or in Silicon Valley. As a matter of fact, we have a lot of our companies that are out in Silicon Valley, that are in incubators there.

In February I'm taking 16 companies that are in the gaming business to the biggest game developer show in the world. We're doing things in New York City. There they call themselves “Silicon Alley”, and are trying to position themselves as being, if you're in the technology sector, the place to go if you're on the east coast.

We're just at the beginning of it here. Every time I turn around, we've done incredible work with setting up startup ecosystems, taking innovation outside of just the major centres, working on that, and creating a place where all these young talented people can produce top work.

If you look at a lot of places, there's so much talent on the ground there, but then they don't know where to start. It's about creating those ecosystems, those innovation systems, where if you have an idea, then you know somewhere you can go and you can talk to someone tomorrow. Of course it will lead you into some of the federal and provincial departments that can assist you, but it's about getting it up off the ground. That's a huge part of what we do. We're a huge player in the startup ecosystem here. I don't really care where it falls, as long as it happens.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you.

Thank you, sir, for coming. It's an eye-opener for all of us. I mean, if you think it's just fish and oil here in Newfoundland and you hear about what your company is doing, it's very inspirational. Thank you for coming and doing a presentation. If you have anything you want to add or send to us, you're welcome to put it in the report. If you're ever in Ottawa, drop in and see some of our committee hearings. We'd appreciate it.

[Ron Taylor]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you.

That wraps up our panellists today with the MPs. We'll take a little break for five minutes, and then we'll start up with the hearing from the audience.

We have a list here of the people who want to present. You have two minutes, so keep your presentations to two minutes. I sometimes stretch it to two and a half, but that's it.

We'll start in about five minutes and then we'll get on with our show.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

This is the time when we have an open mike for the audience. It's gone quite well across the country. We usually go for about two minutes. When you hit the two minutes, I'll hold up a white piece of paper so you can wrap up. We go mike to mike, so we start off with mike one and get somebody on deck for two, and we go back and forth.

We're here to listen. There is no back and forth. There will be no comments from the MPs about what you say, and everything you put forward will be put into our text or our submission. Anything you feel you didn't convey or get across we can also receive through emails from you.

We'll start off with Mary Tee at mike one, and then Marjorie Evans at mike two.

Go ahead, Ms. Tee.

[Mary Tee, As an Individual]

Thank you for this opportunity.

I'll confine my remarks to some of the negative impacts this agreement would have on the environment and on the most vulnerable in our society.

Canada has promised to transition to a low-carbon economy. As Canadian governments are involved in discussions on how we might work towards a clean energy future, we're at the same time facing what might be termed a derailment of this process in the TPP agreement, which threatens to undermine economic environmental progress.

This agreement poses a devastating threat to the common good by favouring multinational corporations. In similar trade agreements, Canada has already been sued 35 times, and 63% of these claims have involved challenges to environmental protection. The TPP would most likely only serve to increase the number of these suits, especially in investor-state dispute settlements.

With the removal of gas export restrictions, this agreement would further encourage the extraction of fossil fuels and advance the rate of exploration and extraction of natural gas. In addition, there is a high probability that Canadian manufacturing jobs would be outsourced to Vietnam and Malaysia to avail of cheap labour. There the production of goods is two to four times more carbon-intensive. Added to this, the added shipping-related greenhouse gas emissions would have significant negative environmental implications, thus further severely impacting the lives of this and future generations of the entire earth community.

Clearly, the dangers involved in signing an agreement that would protect the interests of large multinational corporations—

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Excuse me, you're going to have to wrap up.

[Mary Tee]

—at the expense of the elected governments, the poor, and the environment far outreach the benefit a TPP might have. Without an ethical approach, the economic development and the growth of any nation cannot function properly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you very much.

We will move to Marjorie Evans. Can Michael Power be ready at mike one?

Go ahead, Ms. Evans.

[Marjorie Evans, As an Individual]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today.

I have been very concerned with the protection of the natural environment in this province for probably the last three decades. On a number of occasions I have been concerned with environmental assessments. That process is under Canadian law, and we're hoping that it is there for Canadian people, not just companies but individual people. Government should be concerned with the millions of individual Canadians and their rights, and the rights of the environment in the country we live in.

I don't know a great deal about the details of this TPP. I do know that NAFTA permitted challenges, as in Digby Neck and the quarry there that was proposed by Bilcon, an American company, I believe. They wanted to have a quarry and a port and to send ships through the Bay of Fundy. The environmental assessment process worked when the people who lived there objected, but now the company is coming back with a NAFTA challenge. They want $101 million American dollars from the Government of Canada.

This is all very fine. Big companies can afford to bring challenges to court. What about the people? If the quarry were to go ahead, if the company were to win the NAFTA challenge, would the people be compensated for the quality of life they have lost? Would they receive several hundred thousand dollars each for the loss of their property value? What about the whales in the Bay of Fundy? How will you be able to compensate them?

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Ms. Evans, for your presentation.

We'll move to Mr. Michael Power. If Christina Dawn could be ready at mike number two, I'd appreciate it.

Go ahead, Mr. Power.

[Michael Power, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I work for the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. One area I want to touch on is labour mobility. In this province we have a resource-based type of economy. We have several ongoing projects in gas and oil, hydro development, and that sort of stuff. Our concern, when we buy into the global economy and all these sorts of things, is the protection of Canadian workers. Canadians come first. That's our priority.

I've negotiated agreements for the fixed-link transmission to Nova Scotia, the Muskrat Falls hydro dam and the transmission lines from there, and of course all the equipment that's going into that project. We're in partnership with the energy company, Nalcor, in developing that project. Our concern with the TPP is whether we can build these partnerships internally with our own corporations and protect the rights of Canadians to these jobs first.

There's absolutely no doubt that we need expertise. If a piece of equipment was made in a certain part of the world, we have provisions, in collective agreements that we bargained, that enable us to bring those people in so that we can have a transfer of technology from wherever it was manufactured to the people who can maintain it into the future. That's a concern of ours when we talk about that.

There's also the issue of labour mobility and being able to go across Canada. If there's a shortage of power line technician workers in Newfoundland, we would like to be able to go to all the other provinces and take those workers if they're available. If they're not available, then we can go to the United States or we can bring them in from foreign countries. We're not opposed to that at all as an organization. As a matter of fact, we have language that covers all of that in the project agreements we've signed off on in the building of these hydro projects.

Equipment for this project comes from all parts of the world. It is made in China, made in India, made in Turkey. It comes from everywhere. Of course, with that equipment to be installed, there are going to be manufacturers' representatives. We work with those folks to make sure there is that transfer of technology, that Canadian jobs are protected, and that we can sustain a future for the people who make their living from the construction industry.

When I talk about mobility, this is exactly what we want; we want Canadians first. If we have aboriginal groups within our communities that are close to these construction projects, we look at them and give them the first choice to get that type of work if they have the skills and qualifications.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, sir.

Some of your concerns were raised by some of your brothers and other workers across this country. If you have any more thoughts from your union, you can bring them to us, no problem.

We're going to move to mike number two, and we have Christina Dawn. At mike number one we have Sharon Halfyard.

Go ahead, Christina.

[Christina Dawn, As an Individual]

Thank you for the opportunity to attend this public consultation today.

I stand before you as a concerned citizen—super nervous. I believe it is our responsibility to protect our natural environment, not only for ourselves and our future generations but also for the plants, the wildlife, and the organisms that our actions affect.

My biggest issue with the TPP is the inclusion of the rights for foreign corporations to sue our government if we make changes to our laws that harm their investments. I cannot see how we'll be able to protect our environment with these restrictions on the creation of our environmental laws.

For this reason, I'm against the TPP agreement.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thanks very much. Thanks for coming to the mike.

Could Anthony Middleton go to mike number two?

Go ahead, Sharon. You have the floor.

[Sharon Halfyard, As an Individual]

I guess I'm speaking as a parent, as a former teacher, and as a former small business owner who did work with the trades in France, the United States, and Ireland. I very much understand the value of trade.

Lastly, though, I'd like to speak as a research student. I'm a Ph.D. candidate. Last week I had the opportunity to read a book on ethical research by Dr. Susan Tilley of Brock University. She talked about transparency. She talked about ethical interviewing. She talked about ethical analysis. I'm doing all of those things right now, as I write my thesis.

I have to say that I am upset and disappointed by the process that has happened here today. I don't feel it's a very fair process. I went to a Blue Jays game last week. If I were to score this panel on what is already set in your minds, which a researcher is not supposed to have, the score would be five pro, one no. That is not fair research.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you.

We're going to move on to Anthony Middleton.

[Anthony Middleton, As an Individual]

My name is Tony Middleton. I'm a retired computer science professor, and I'm here as Joe Citizen.

In Canada and the U.S., wealth inequality is increasing. Quality jobs are being offshored. Debt loads are threatening economic stability. In the U.S. in particular, stability is maintained by increasing debt. Stability would disappear if they couldn't increase debt. Independent studies suggest that trade treaties may make things worse.

Furthermore, trade treaties limit our ability to repair the damage that's already been done. ISDS lawsuits can neutralize government attempts to stimulate their own economy. That can result in huge lawsuits, which can depend on projections of profits that can be rather fictitious.

ISDS lawsuits essentially make offshore tribunals superior to nation-state courts. They effectively rewrite the constitution of a country. They don't literally rewrite the constitution, they just declare that it's increasingly irrelevant.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, sir.