Evidence of meeting #63 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was company.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Carolina Gallo  Vice-President, Public Affairs, ABB Canada
Sean Donnelly  President and Chief Executive Officer, ArcelorMittal Dofasco
Éric Ducharme  Vice-President, Sales, ADF Group Inc.
David McHattie  Vice-President, Institutional Relations Canada, Tenaris

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Welcome, witnesses.

Members, some control here; we're not in the House right now. We're trying to get everybody simmered down. They're excited after leaving the House, with all those votes. Sorry for being late. That's the way things roll around here.

This is the final meeting of our study on the steel industry, the impacts internationally and the state of our steel industry here in Canada.

With us at the table today are three witnesses: Tenaris, ADF Group, and ArcelorMittal Dofasco. Also, we have Carolina Gallo, from ABB, by video conference. Welcome, folks.

We'll try to have a good dialogue. We have about an hour. We'll open it up. If you can keep your views to within five minutes, we'd appreciate it. Then we'll have dialogue with the MPs.

I think we'll go right to Ms. Gallo, from ABB, by video conference.

4:15 p.m.

Carolina Gallo Vice-President, Public Affairs, ABB Canada

Good afternoon. I want to thank you for your invitation to present today on behalf of my company, ABB Canada, on your study of the steel industry's competitive impact in competing globally.

I'm the VP of public affairs and corporate communications for ABB. The focus of my presentation today is about people, technology, and the future of the innovation ecosystem in Canada.

I'm a Canadian born of immigrants who fled war and poverty in post-war Europe. Most of my family worked in Canadian-owned factories in Quebec and Ontario in industrial manufacturing and cement. I'm the first of my extended family to graduate from university.

For the benefit of committee members, I will note that ABB is a global company headquartered in Zurich. It was born of the merger of a Swedish company, ASEA, and a Swiss company, Brown Boveri, that had a legacy footprint in Canada through electric systems and automation for pulp and paper mills. In Canada, we are 4,000 Canadians who are power and automation experts. We're in over 50 locations from coast to coast.

We are Canada's leading technology supplier for electrification, whether it's high-voltage direct current systems for companies such as Hydro-Québec or the Maritime link project. We also supply equipment such as the largest mining hoist in the world for PotashCorp in Saskatchewan. We provide electrification systems for the power supply for pipelines for oil and gas.

We are also into robotics and automation for manufacturing, which is part of the scope of my presentation today. It's this automation story that I think is key to the reshoring of jobs for the Canadian economy.

We have customers in the steel industry in Canada, the U.S., and globally. I will not speak to steel manufacturing. Our customers—and some of them are in the room today—are the experts in their products and their markets. However, what I would like to bring to the table today is the message that there's an information technology revolution happening, and it's happening in a context of sustainability, energy concerns, COP22, and a disruption to the power supply model of utilities and for industries with respect to integrating clean renewable energy.

We also have another revolution going on. It's called “Industry 4.0”. It's where the world of people and machines meets the Internet. According to the McKinsey Global Institute, the fourth industrial revolution's IoT represents an $11.1-trillion business opportunity in the next eight years. That's more than 10% of global GDP.

The first point in my presentation is about people. Our workforce challenge at ABB—and that of our customers—is to face the pressures of finding the right people with the right technical skills and the ability to communicate effectively and to engage for productivity, with collaboration.

The future of this workforce is millennials. This generation is the most connected generation in history and will network right out of their workplace if their needs are not met. They are computer and digital native experts and they're connected by email, WhatsApp, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter—you name it.

This can be good news for the steel industry and other industrials who have already incorporated software and automation into processes and operations; however, the risk opportunity lies in thinking that this digital revolution is just a fad, or that some industries are less prone to being completely digitized or that it's less necessary. Today, things are so volatile and unpredictable that business cycles have been compressed to where you need to think about what your company looks like not just in two-, three-, or four-year cycles: you need to know where you're going to be in six months.

Digital isn't merely “digital”. It's really a new way of thinking and a new way of doing. I'm speaking to you from a $90-million campus that we're about to inaugurate officially. It's a completely open concept. If you could see it on either side of me, you would see that it's completely glass.

We're a completely open concept. I'm vice-president, and my boss doesn't have a desk, and I don't have a desk. We're all hotelling. This high-tech concept is a workplace 2020 notion, where collaboration and transparency are the order of the day, from the CEO right down to the IT specialist who's sitting with me.

Thank you to Robert Baronian, who is sitting with me.

We're in a perfectly flat, collaborative space because real time, same time is part of what makes a company efficient.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Excuse me, do you want to wrap up? Your time is up.

4:20 p.m.

Vice-President, Public Affairs, ABB Canada

Carolina Gallo

The wrap-up is that 3-D printing and digital are the opportunities going forward, and the digital quotient of companies shows that 90% of top performers in the Fortune 500 are those that have completely integrated digital into their operations.

Thank you very much.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you.

We're going to move over to Dofasco, and Mr. Donnelly.

4:20 p.m.

Sean Donnelly President and Chief Executive Officer, ArcelorMittal Dofasco

Thank you.

Good afternoon, honourable members.

I'm Sean Donnelly, president and CEO of ArcelorMittal Dofasco, Canada's largest flat-rolled steel producer. I'm also chair of the Canadian Steel Producers Association, which testified here earlier in March; a member of the board of directors of the American Iron and Steel Institute; as well as a member of the Canadian Automotive Partnership Council.

Let me start by saying that ArcelorMittal Dofasco welcomes the Government of Canada's budget 2017 commitment to improve its ability to defend Canadian manufacturers against dumped and subsidized imports by implementing measures that effectively modernize the Canadian trade remedy system. These legislative and regulatory amendments will improve the enforcement of trade remedies, address the circumvention of duties, and better account for market and price distortions. These measures received widespread support from manufacturers and business associations across Canada.

I have been monitoring the committee's proceedings over the past weeks, and appreciate the time and effort of everyone involved. I'm pleased to also add some context to this study.

To answer the question being asked about whether the Canadian steel industry can compete internationally, for ArcelorMittal Dofasco the answer is a resounding yes. In fact, Dofasco is one of the top-performing businesses within all of ArcelorMittal, the largest steel company in the world, with a presence in 60 countries. In Canada, ArcelorMittal has more than 9,500 employees across seven business units that include mining as well as steelmaking and finishing for flat carbon, long products, and tailored blank steel.

Steel is a capital- and technology-intensive industry. In fact, at ArcelorMittal Dofasco we often say that we are a technology company that makes steel. We rely on processes and product innovation to be successful in the North American and global steel industry.

Having said that, we also know that people are our competitive advantage. You likely know our long-standing motto: “Our Product is Steel. Our Strength is People.” In Hamilton, we continue to live by this belief. We have 5,000 employees and are responsible for another 20,000 indirect jobs.

We continue to experience a wave of retirements. We are in the marketplace hiring, and have been for the past five years. Nearly 30% of our workforce has five years or less experience with the company; and we continue to bring on approximately 300 new employees per year, over the next number of years. These new employees soon realize that learning and development is a core commitment at ArcelorMittal Dofasco, whether on the job, in the classroom, or even outside the workplace. In fact, ArcelorMittal Dofasco operates the only North American campus of our global ArcelorMittal University.

In terms of capital expenditure, between 2013 and 2015, Dofasco invested more than $1.3 billion in the Hamilton facilities. Between 2016 and 2018, we will invest another $1.5 billion. These investments are in both product and processes, including new finishing lines as well as restoration work. They demonstrate our commitment to innovation, which is driven through collaboration with our global colleagues, our global R and D facilities in Hamilton, local clusters in the city of Hamilton, and the contributions and the strength of our people.

Again, the government's budget 2017 announced yesterday will create a national advanced manufacturing economic strategy table with a commitment to increase value-added exports, as well as the establishment of innovation super clusters, including advanced manufacturing, to accelerate economic growth. ArcelorMittal Dofasco looks forward to partnering with the government on both these initiatives.

Again, as a unit of a large, multinational corporation, we compete for capital within our own facilities. While our focus on innovation through continuous improvement differentiates us and keeps us at the forefront of our industry, we also require provincial and federal regulatory environments that maintain cost competitiveness, as well as policy that ensures a fair market with a fair trade, all factors that play into decisions for foreign direct investment.

While the Canadian budget has now been released, we are awaiting budget measures from the new U.S. administration, which have been suggested to have a potential negative effect on trade flows of North American supply chains, including steel.

Members have heard from previous testimony about the structure of the North American steel market. Let me reiterate that the Canadian steel industry is significantly intertwined with that of our U.S. customers and suppliers, and there is a balance of trade. In 2016, more than 10 million metric tons of steel, worth about $12 billion, was traded between our two countries. Canada and the U.S. trade fairly in steel, with no dumping or subsidy orders against each other.

Looking at ArcelorMittal Dofasco specifically, more than 25% of our shipments are to the U.S., with more than a half of those shipments to the U.S. auto industry. In addition, we are Canada's only tin plate producer. As major food can manufacturers have moved their operations from Canada to the U.S., most of our tin plate production is exported there.

Policy changes in the U.S. will impact Canadian manufacturers. Potential border adjustment taxes, expanded U.S. Buy America policies—particularly for private projects—as well as expansion of U.S. trade rules that may result in diversion of offshore steel into Canada are all of great concern in that they would disrupt efficient working supply chains.

In the renegotiation of NAFTA, Canada must be vigilant to ensure that our economy is not disadvantaged as a result of the renegotiation. We believe there is an opportunity for a North American approach that would increase the North American manufacturing base and the market share of supply chains, including steel.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Please wrap up, Mr. Donnelly.

4:25 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, ArcelorMittal Dofasco

Sean Donnelly

In summary, we are a global leader in process and product innovation and will remain focused on continuous improvement of those things that are within our control. We will also continue to advocate for trade and economic policies that create an environment for all manufacturers to effectively compete. Together, these will ensure foreign direct investment for our business and for Canada.

We look forward to a bright future for ArcelorMittal Dofasco as an innovative, technologically advanced manufacturer in Canada.

Thank you for your time.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you, sir.

We're going to move over to ADF, with Mr. Ducharme.

4:25 p.m.

Éric Ducharme Vice-President, Sales, ADF Group Inc.

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Éric Ducharme and I am the vice-president of sales for the ADF Group Inc.

The ADF Group is a key player in the manufacturing of steel structures in Canada. The company's products and services are used primarily in non-residential construction, which means office towers, recreational complexes, airport facilities, industrial complexes, and transportation infrastructure.

The company has a 630,000-square foot plant in Terrebonne, Quebec, and more than 350 employees. The ADF Group is known for its expertise in engineering and project management, and for its major manufacturing capacity.

It must be said that, since the 2008 recession, our industry has witnessed an unprecedented increase in the major contracts awarded to companies located in China and Korea, and also in European countries such as England and Spain. This might seem normal in view of the globalization of markets. Yet the manufacturing of large steel parts to be used in our infrastructure and industrial complexes is threatened by these newcomers, primarily from countries that can produce parts for metal structures at 40% to 50% below market prices.

Despite the investment of over $75 million over the past 15 years in cost-cutting technologies, including integrated operations management systems, excellent design software, digital equipment, and staff training, the ADF Group has suffered inexplicable, even undue, pressure in the past ten years or so, owing to the sales price of structures delivered to Canada and manufactured by foreign competitors. It is a level of competition that, in some cases, we cannot explain.

For example, for the new Champlain bridge project currently under construction, some 900,000 hours of work related to the steel structure were awarded to Spanish companies. Since the average wages in the industry in Europe are approximately 19.5 euros per hour and the environmental and health and safety standards are similar to those in Canada, the price difference cannot be explained by differences in wages, or related to environmental or health and safety factors.

What is the explanation? What competitive advantage do these foreign companies have over Canadian companies? Do they get government subsidies or tax credits? Should we do like the United States and develop a “Buy Canadian Act” for our public projects?

Recently, a clause requiring purchases to be made in the United States or Canada was added to the specifications for the construction of the Gordie Howe bridge, which will link the cities of Windsor and Detroit. This step will clearly provide for healthy competition in North America and have positive effects on our respective economies.

Finally, beware of major clients that publicly explain their decision to buy from a foreign company by saying that Canada does not have the capacity to meet their project requirements. A number of projects in western Canada, among others, have been awarded to Chinese and Korean manufacturers. I personally took part in those negotiations with those very clients and can tell you that they were talking about price, not capacity. Moreover, any medium-sized or major Canadian manufacturer can tell you that we have our factories' excess capacity forces us to export our products.

In closing, I would say that it is imperative for our industry to be protected from a new group of so-called discount international companies, and for greater consideration be given to the economic benefits that a locally manufactured major project can have for Canada, including the expertise of our engineering firms, wage benefits, subcontracting, and tax revenues.

We recommend that a study be launched to shed light on the gaps between our sales prices and those of the international companies mentioned in relation to the bridge and major structure projects.

We also believe that the current measures taken by the Canadian government are insufficient to protect our industry. We therefore recommend that these measures be strengthened.

Thank you for your attention.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you, sir.

We're going to move over to Tenaris and Mr. McHattie.

4:30 p.m.

David McHattie Vice-President, Institutional Relations Canada, Tenaris

Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this study. It's an important time for the industry, and it's an important time for our operations in Canada. We appreciate the multi-party support and the multi-party aspect of this, in particular on trade remedy effectiveness. It was included in the budget released yesterday and had been in the previous two budgets, with multi-party support.

I'm David McHattie. I'm responsible for institutional relations for Tenaris in Canada. I've worked for the company for 20 years, and I was one of the first three employees hired. I've been responsible for our strategic planning—the commercial, industrial, and economic planning. Now I'm responsible for institutional relations.

In addition to my paid work, I'm vice-chair of the Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters, and I'm on the board of the Petroleum Services Association of Canada. I have contributed to a couple of Chamber of Commerce studies. I'm able to speak about advanced manufacturing, about manufacturing goods for Canada's energy industry in general, and about Tenaris specifically.

To give you some context, I'll share a little bit about the company, a little about challenges and opportunities, and wrap up with what I think is a fantastic opportunity for the government to work together with industry.

Tenaris is one of the world's leading steel companies, particularly as measured by its market capitalization. Not only is it a leading steel company, but it's also one of the world's leading oil field services companies. We're a world leader in advanced manufacturing. We manufacture steel pipes for use in many applications, but primarily in energy development and oil and gas development.

We operate wherever oil and gas is located, including Canada, which happens to be the fourth-largest market in the world for these products. These include steel casing, tubing, threaded connections, and accessories used in oil and gas development and extraction; the line pipe that transports from the well to the facilities; and the pipes inside the facilities, enabling the further value added of the oil and gas.

We have three manufacturing facilities in Canada and nine service facilities spread out in the field. Our three manufacturing facilities are in Sault Ste. Marie, Calgary, and Nisku, which is on the edge of Edmonton.

We are an advanced manufacturer of high value-added products. That's why we're interested. We are not making steel in Canada necessarily; we are buying from Canadian steelmakers. They are our partners in these businesses. We work together in designing the steels that the energy industry demands. We continually invest in our manufacturing processes. Before the most recent crisis that hit the energy sector, we were investing about $100 million every three to four years in our manufacturing facilities.

Among the several reasons we are here in Canada are our valued oil and gas clients. This is an important market for developing our oil and gas. It's a global player. We are here to manufacture in Canada and to add value, in Canada, to this industry. This is an industry that has the scale, the differentiation, and the competitiveness to thrive sustainably.

Can Tenaris compete internationally from Canada? The answer is yes. This is a market that is large enough. It's a market, though, where prices need to be determined based on fair competition, and effective trade remedy is what enables fair competition.

Trade policy is one of the most important drivers in our investment decisions. It's a strategic industry. I'll highlight a few of the challenges today as they relate to trade policy. There are three topics: overcapacity, its drivers and impacts; the importance of trade remedy rules; and how this relates to competitiveness for capital investment.

We've all heard about the issue of overcapacity. Our Prime Minister has spoken positively, at major international forums, about Canada's interest in resolving this global problem.

I'd like to drill down a little bit. We know there are 700 million metric tonnes of overcapacity of steel. This is 45 times the size of the Canadian market.

What we need to think about is downstream, and that's just the start of the problem in steelmaking. There is overcapacity in things made from steel. I appreciate the comments from my colleague that this is a global problem and it's something I'm very pleased you are interested in, and I think we can work together to resolve it.

In terms of the products we make—

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Sir, can you wrap right up there?

4:35 p.m.

Vice-President, Institutional Relations Canada, Tenaris

David McHattie

Yes.

The biggest challenge we have today is with unfair trade. There have been 600 trade cases around the world. Many of these are in steel and steel products. We have had challenges. We appreciate that the trade remedy is important to resolve these issues. With regard to each of the three actions taken yesterday in the budget—on particular market situations, on a scope ruling, and on circumvention—we have had negative impacts by not having these tools. We expect this is going to enable the Canadian industry for steel and steel products to be more competitive, and we appreciate those and appreciate all of your support.

My final point is on the opportunities for Canada to be competitive. We announced today that we have restarted our Calgary facility in part—and not an unimportant part—based on the actions taken on trade remedy and on the collegial way of approaching this global problem and how Canada will continue to compete. This means we're bringing back about 150 jobs to Calgary in addition to the roughly 350 jobs we added to Sault Ste. Marie in the last six months because of actions taken on trade remedy. We want to bring this to concrete jobs in our communities, jobs in your communities, and this complete steel supply chain that goes from the iron ore to the steelmaking to the steel products and their use. This makes us as Canadians competitive in all of our industry. It's an important ingredient, and we appreciate your attention and action.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

I thank all of the presenters. As a member of Parliament from Sydney, Nova Scotia, I will just say that we made steel for 100 years and we realize how challenging the industry is.

Before we open up dialogue with the MPs, I'd like to welcome some visiting MPs. We have the two boys from Hamilton, Mr. Duvall and Mr. Bratina.

Welcome.

We also have the member of Parliament for Sault Ste. Marie, Mr. Sheehan.

It's good to see you here.

We're going to start our dialogue with the MPs. They have five minutes. We're going to start with the Conservatives.

Mr. Hoback, you have the floor.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for having the patience to wait us out as we went through votes.

So many questions and not enough time. I have five minutes, but I'd love to spend probably 45 minutes talking about 3-D printing and that whole new technology and what it's going to do to logistics and how it's going to change our whole society in the next 10 or 15 years. But again, I have just five minutes.

I'm going to talk about maybe a combination of our carbon footprint and the carbon taxes we're facing here in Canada, which you're competing with outside of Canada. I want to talk a little bit about that. I also want to talk about our competitiveness, the fact that when we look at our competitiveness—and the CME has used this example—we're losing out because we're no longer competitive. We don't have the competitive advantage in the manufacturing sector here in Canada compared to other sectors around the world.

The government just invested $245 billion in the China infrastructure and development bank, with a $1-billion commitment moving forward. Will you get any of that business? Will any of that business flow your way as that money is being spent overseas in China?

4:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, ArcelorMittal Dofasco

Sean Donnelly

I'll take the first question on the carbon taxing.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

I'll actually come back to that a little bit more, but maybe go to the second question first and then I'll come back to the carbon tax.

4:40 p.m.

Vice-President, Institutional Relations Canada, Tenaris

David McHattie

I can answer that. Most of Canada's steel industry is oriented around goods that are used in Canada, and I would say that Canada's steel industry is unlikely to benefit significantly from investments made overseas. Today there are almost no duties on products that come into Canada. At best, this could be a risk to us. However, I think if we take a holistic view to our supply decisions, including choosing to buy things with the lowest GHG footprints, and we make investments in carbon and awareness of our customers along the supply chain, this might end up being a net profit for us.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

This is where I get kind of frustrated, because I know the requirements you have to meet here in Canada. I know that in previous committee meetings we've talked about measuring the actual number of kilograms of carbon emitted per tonne of steel produced and then we compare that to the same scenario in India and China. If we're looking at the global carbon footprint, we should be cranking our mills up left, right, and centre if that's the factor, if what we're worried about is the environment and our carbon footprint. Would you not agree with that?

4:40 p.m.

Vice-President, Institutional Relations Canada, Tenaris

David McHattie

I would agree completely. There's an opportunity, though, for us to share the information so that customers know, when they make a decision to purchase something from China, that they're buying something that has produced three times the amount of GHG emissions and that if they choose to buy from a supply chain in Canada they're making the right, almost ethical decision.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

It comes back to the competitiveness factor, then. You're paying more to get to the efficiency level to get such reductions. They aren't, yet they're bringing the steel in here.

Help me to understand this. They're bringing the steel in here with the higher greenhouse gas footprint, and you're competing against that, plus we're throwing all these other regulations at you that will not let you compete, that just make it impossible.

What should we do at the border, then, to accommodate the fact that this stuff is coming in basically with no acknowledgement of the environment among the cost factors?

4:45 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, ArcelorMittal Dofasco

Sean Donnelly

I think that's the key question. It's a question of competitiveness and treatment at the border. The EU, as you know, is considering carbon taxes. Our company is out talking about border carbon taxes. I don't know that we have to go to that extent, but there has to be a recognition of where carbon is being generated.

You're right; it has been part of the testimony to this committee that Chinese steel, for example, generates three times the CO2 per tonne that Canadian steel does. That includes not just the production of the steel; it's the transport of coal from Australia to China, all of that.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Exactly. It's the whole chain right through.

4:45 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, ArcelorMittal Dofasco

Sean Donnelly

It's also the transportation of steel from China into Canada, absolutely.