Evidence of meeting #67 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nafta.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Brian Innes  President, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
Dan Darling  President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Hans Kristensen  Director, Board of Directors, Canadian Pork Council
Levi Wood  President, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association
John Masswohl  Director, Government and International Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Gary Stordy  Public Relations Manager, Canadian Pork Council

4:20 p.m.

President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Dan Darling

Absolutely.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Mr. Innes, before you jump in, let me say that we hear a lot of talk about sensitive products. I'm curious. Are you hearing any talk in the U.S. about more access for sugar? Are they willing to accept a change in the amount of sensitive products in NAFTA, or what are you hearing?

4:20 p.m.

President, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance

Brian Innes

What we've continually heard from the U.S. is that they have their sensitivities, but they would like our sensitivities to allow access for their products. No, we're not hearing an offer on sensitive products such as sugar.

What we are hearing internationally, though, is a recognition that Canada has an ability to achieve trade outcomes in the world. Yes, we certainly see opportunities to implement what was agreed to in the TPP and we're fully supportive of it. We also recognize that competitors have access to China that we don't have.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Would you jeopardize a trade deal with NAFTA, though, just to do a trade deal with China?

4:20 p.m.

President, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance

Brian Innes

We don't see the two as being contradictory.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

But in the U.S. they do. I've been down there substantially, and this comes up quite often. If you had the choice, then, what would you choose?

4:20 p.m.

President, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance

Brian Innes

We see a lot of opportunity for growth in China, with incredible—

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

You would take China over NAFTA, then?

4:20 p.m.

President, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance

Brian Innes

What we recognize is that we have a fantastic opportunity in North America with the existing agreement.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Okay, so you would do NAFTA, then.

I'm asking a very straight question. If you had priorities, if you wanted to get one thing done first, which would you choose, NAFTA or China?

4:20 p.m.

President, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance

Brian Innes

We've heard Secretary Ross, for example, talk about the importance of doing something quickly with NAFTA over the course of the next six to seven months before Christmas. I think we all recognize, if we look at the experience with Australia and China, that it takes some years to be able to achieve an agreement.

I'd like to think and I certainly think from an agriculture perspective, as we've heard concerning the importance of diverse markets, that we're looking to grow our opportunities in the world, and we recognize that growing incomes and a growing ability to import food are coming in the Asia-Pacific region.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

I think it took Australia nine years, so China definitely wouldn't be something that's going to provide immediate relief, if something should go south with NAFTA, but the TPP could be. Is that fair to say?

4:20 p.m.

President, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance

Brian Innes

We certainly see the TPP as an incredible opportunity, one that 12 countries agreed to and 11 still see as a venue to move forward. We've been fully supportive of implementing it.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

When we talk about grading—

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Mr. Hoback, you only have 15 seconds left.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Well, you interrupted me, so I get 30 seconds then, right? Let me ask one quick question.

When you talk about grading, Mr. Masswohl, do you think we need to go to a North American grading style? Is this something we should look at and be done with it, getting rid of Canadian and U.S. grading and just saying that this is North American grading?

It is North American beef, but the reality is that the cow may come from Montana, go to Lethbridge, and come back into the U.S. to be slaughtered. Shouldn't we look at something—?

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Make it a short answer, sir.

May 11th, 2017 / 4:20 p.m.

Director, Government and International Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

John Masswohl

We think there is still some advantage to having a Canadian grade for what we market in Canada, so I don't know that we're prepared to take that step just yet, but maybe we could harmonize the standards a bit more. There has been some effort towards that goal over the years and some success with it. Really, though, the ability to sell graded product in the United States would be of benefit.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you, sir. We're going to move to the Liberals now.

Mr. Fonseca, you have the floor for five minutes. Go ahead.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

My riding of Mississauga East—Cooksville probably hasn't seen a farm in just over 30 years, when there were a bunch of apple orchards in the area right by the Pearson airport. We have a lot of industry. We have automotive, medical devices, a lot of manufacturing, including advanced manufacturing, and aerospace, but we don't have any farms.

When I speak to the businesses, they're quite concerned about the tweaking or the modernization of NAFTA, etc. They talk about most of their business being with the United States, not so much with Mexico, although yours is quite intertwined.

Because you're all in the agriculture sector, I want to ask whether you have had the opportunity to visit farms in the United States or Mexico.

Has everybody had the opportunity to do that?

We hear a lot of criticism about not having a level playing field when it comes to the three countries. You have Canada and the United States with pretty high standards, and then in Mexico....

Can you—and this is open to the panel—inform us maybe, so that we have an understanding, what those farms are like? Do they have the same health and safety standards? What kind of labour wages are they providing? What kind of standards do they have?

What we heard during the election down in the United States is that they're undercutting American workers and syphoning off jobs, not necessarily in agriculture but in all industry. Because NAFTA is being looked at as a whole, I'm asking you, being experts in the field.

4:25 p.m.

Public Relations Manager, Canadian Pork Council

Gary Stordy

There are some differences in the three countries. One example is building codes. We have a winter climate here, so we have more robust farm structures compared to what may be available in other countries. At the same time, we do rely on the CFIA and their food inspection to ensure that the process they adhere to is similar to or adheres to our expectations of food safety. If a product comes from a Mexican farm and I'm eating it here in Canada, I wouldn't have any concerns, the same as they shouldn't have for ours. We have a number of safeguards between the countries to deal with that aspect of it.

When it comes to labour or labour availability, I guarantee you that in the U.S. they pull a number of employees from Mexico, just as Canada does. We pull employees from Mexico as well as other countries. Labourers move around. We certainly are looking for more employees and labour here in Canada, but—

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Getting at the standards, do you feel that Mexican standards, their health and safety standards and their labour standards, for workers on farms in Mexico would be at our level for workers here in Canada?

4:25 p.m.

Public Relations Manager, Canadian Pork Council

Gary Stordy

Fortunately, there are a number of standards on how hogs are raised, so there wouldn't be very much of a difference between the three.

4:25 p.m.

President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Dan Darling

As for the cattle operations that we visited in Mexico, we certainly never got into a conversation on how much they're paying their employees. They seem to be well looked after.

From our perspective, we like to look more at the positive things than the negative things. Mexico takes a lot of our genetics. When we were down in Mexico a couple of years ago, we visited several ranches where Canadian genetics—more specifically, western Canadian genetics—on their cattle were very prevalent. In fact, when we came back and were at the Agribition, we saw cattle there that were owned by Mexican ranchers. They buy those genetics because we have a high quality. I like to look at the positives rather than the negatives, because it's not really our place to judge them.

The comment was right. The CFIA is there to make sure the standards for products coming in from Mexico are similar. I might want to add, though, that we are so integrated in the U.S. and Canada that a lot of the packers are owned by the same companies, right? We can't forget that. Those products are sent from either Canada or the U.S. into Mexico. It's a completely integrated system.

I would go further and say for sure that maybe our CETA deal could take a few glimpses at NAFTA and its successes. There seems to be a little protectionism on the CETA at this time, and they could take a page out of NAFTA.

4:25 p.m.

Director, Board of Directors, Canadian Pork Council

Hans Kristensen

I'll be really quick. I've never operated farms in Mexico, but I have operated hog production facilities in both Canada and the United States, and yes, there are differences. There are certain cost advantages in the U.S., and there are certain cost and health advantages in Canada. To start comparing labour codes and everything, including building codes, becomes a bit protectionist, in my opinion.

The regulatory environment is very similar. I rely on the quality of the finished product to be similar. I know that for a fact. I rely on the CFIA for any product that's moving back and forth; I know it's similar.

I'm not that concerned with the cost of labour in Illinois versus Ontario or the cost of a building here versus there. You give a Canadian hog producer an equal regulatory environment and a non-tariff border and we can compete with anybody in the world, and I'm happy to do so.