International Trade Committee on May 18th, 2017

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, sir.

I remind MPs to watch your questions at the end of your time because we want to get everybody in today. We're doing pretty well. We've finished the first round and we're going to go to the second round. We're going to start off with the Liberals. We have Madam Lapointe.

Go ahead; you have the floor.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here. It is very much appreciated. This is an important day, which makes your presence here especially welcome.

Mr. Robertson, you talked earlier about Mexican visas. They were cancelled on December 1, 2016. Do you have any figures on how that cancellation has affected tourism from Mexico, the flow of travellers, and on the impact on Mexican students in Canada?

[Colin Robertson]

The initial Mexican tourism statistics indicate that travel to Canada is up about 60% to 80% from what it was. It's still not exactly where it was before the visa was imposed, but there is a significant number of people now coming to Canada as students and visitors. That's all encouraging, but I think we could do more to encourage that. I think the opportunity is there for the reasons outlined by the other speakers.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

In your opinion, is there something that can be done to stimulate tourism? Should efforts be made in Mexico to encourage people to visit Canada more often and have more economic dealings?

[Colin Robertson]

Yes, ma'am. I think that's exactly what we need to do. Canada's tourism agency, as well as the provincial governments, could be going down and pointing out that it's a wonderful time to visit Canada, as the chair pointed out when he made his introductory remarks. We know Mexicans do like to travel, and now that the visa is lifted, we should point out that you can ski in the winter and how pretty it is in the summer. Tourism will encourage people to say, “What about taking my kids up here to go to school, either for a year of English or French studies or to go to university?”

I think there's huge potential. The fact that we take more students from places like Korea and Malaysia and not from Mexico is surprising. Now that we have Mr. Trump in the United States, that acts as a bit of a push factor for Mexicans to consider Canada.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Dade, I have some questions for you. We have talked about agreements. You have talked a lot about the TPP. You said that it should be used as a guide for the renegotiation of NAFTA. You did not mention CETA. Have you studied the agreement with the European Union? What lessons could be drawn from it that might be applied to the new NAFTA agreement?

[Carlo Dade]

There are some aspects of free trade in CETA that we can use in the NAFTA talks.

I have not studied it thoroughly. I mentioned the TPP and the renegotiation of NAFTA. It was U.S. policy to use the TPP to modernize NAFTA. So the links between the TPP and NAFTA are clearer. It is a bit more difficult with respect to CETA.

I have not heard any statement from the Canadian government as to whether we can use CETA for the renegotiation of NAFTA in the same way as the Americans used the TPP.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

On another matter, should we continue the TPP with 11 countries, since the U.S. has clearly indicated that they will not take part? Should we continue along that path?

[Carlo Dade]

I'll do this one in English for everyone.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That's okay. I understand.

[Carlo Dade]

This is going to require a much longer response. We've just carried out a modelling exercise on TPP 11, a TPP without the U.S.

Canada will do second best of all the 11 countries, after only Mexico. We will be in essence taking market share off the Americans in Asia, market share the Americans will be thrusting our way. Every country of the original 12 will do better, except for the U.S., which will suffer losses. If we want to get the Americans back to the multilateral negotiating table, if we want to get them back on the path to common sense, then I would argue that this is the only means that we really have at our disposal to do it.

The Americans are shooting themselves in the foot by getting out of the TPP, and there is clear evidence. We've received calls from, as you would expect, Australia, New Zealand, and Japan for the modelling exercise. We've also received calls from Secretary Ross's office. We've also received calls from U.S. congressmen and congresswomen about the modelling exercise. This idea of the TPP 11 and the damage it could potentially do to the Americans is also starting to gain traction in Washington. It will help us in the NAFTA negotiations. It gives us something to counter the attempt by the Trump administration to completely rewrite the rules of the game on trade in ways that favour the Americans and disadvantage everyone else.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, sir.

Now we'll go to the Conservatives.

Mr. Ritz, go ahead, sir. You have the floor.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Carlo, thank you for that. We had that little discussion at the beginning of the meeting. I've been saying that exact thing for a year. Mike Froman, the former trade ambassador, has also said that TPP is NAFTA 2.0. If you want to tweak NAFTA, TPP is the vehicle to do it. So you're absolutely right that they didn't just shoot themselves in one foot. They shot both feet by pulling out.

That makes it even more important for Mexico and Canada to link arms, ratify TPP, and move ahead without the Americans. It gives us both some strength dealing with them on NAFTA, as we can point to other trade corridors—Japan especially, the crown jewel. Is Mexico looking at that seriously? At the APEC meetings coming up in Vietnam, we've been pushing the new Liberal government here in Canada to actually ratify TPP. There's nothing in there that should slow us down. Carlo just made my point on that as well.

To the gentleman from Mexico, are you seriously looking at doing that? You have elections coming up next fall. You won't have NAFTA settled by then, but you could certainly have TPP ratified by then.

[Armando Ortega]

Yes, absolutely. The formal position of the Mexican government, restated just a couple of weeks ago, is that they will go to that important meeting in Asia pushing for a TPP 11.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Good.

[Armando Ortega]

I think it's in the best interests of the country, very much so. But the Mexican government has also stated that if, for whatever reason, TPP 11 is not feasible—you will recall that originally Japan was reluctant—then we should explore with Canada other avenues, such as the Alianza del Pacífico. That is a formal position, and one that I agree would help our interests.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

But even with a TPP four or five, Japan has ratified already. New Zealand has ratified. Australia is working on it and they're very close. With Mexico and Canada added in, you have the main players involved. Whether it's TPP 11 or TPP six, it's still in the best interests of Canada and Mexico to buffer the NAFTA talks with that agreement.

Mr. Gómez.

[Agustín Barrios Gómez]

Sorry. I'd put myself on mute so that Armando could reply.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I do that during question period.

[An hon. member]

No, you don't.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Agustín Barrios Gómez]

Basically, I've been dealing with our senate, which would be in charge of ratifying TPP. It is currently not a priority, even though I completely agree with you, sir. I think it is something that we should ratify immediately. I think we should take a leadership role.

I do know that we have the institutional capacity in our foreign relations ministry to pick up that gauntlet, and I hope we can do that.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Ms. Ramsey touched earlier on country-of-origin labelling. I did a ton of work on that, where we identified like-minded people, and businesses especially, in the U.S. Mr. Ortega, you mentioned that you were doing that. We identified over the course of that, and now again with NAFTA, 35 states whose number one trading partner is Canada, and 13 more who are number two.

Has Mexico gone through that exercise as well?

[Agustín Barrios Gómez]

Yes, we have. In fact, for us 23 states in the U.S. are either number one or two. We have identified those stakeholders. Unfortunately, and I think this is true across the board, we have not done nearly enough. The efforts have been infinitesimal, in my view, in terms of actually coordinating those efforts.

These are areas where we could certainly work with Canadians. It's ridiculous that we haven't done so.