Evidence of meeting #69 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mexican.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Agustín Barrios Gómez  Co-Chair, Working Group on the Future of North America, Mexican Council on Foreign Relations
Armando Ortega  President, Canadian Chamber of Commerce in Mexico
Carlo Dade  Director, Centre for Trade and Investment Policy, Canada West Foundation
Colin Robertson  Vice-President and Fellow, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

I don't have much time, and I don't—

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

If I may jump in here, Mr. Robertson really wanted to make a comment, so I would hope he would make a little comment and wrap it up here.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

Maybe it's the same one.

Mr. Robertson.

4:40 p.m.

Vice-President and Fellow, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual

Colin Robertson

I was just going to say that we have to do much more in trade adjustment. In Canada we have a very good safety net with medicare, universal care, and with job training administered by provinces. It is vastly different from what you have in the United States.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

That's right.

4:40 p.m.

Vice-President and Fellow, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual

Colin Robertson

The situations are different, and sometimes we think our system is bad, but in comparison to the U.S., ours is really pretty good. But we do have to pay attention to—and this next accord will have to take this into account—trade adjustment. That will apply probably mostly to the United States because, let's face it, the rising tide lifted a lot of yachts but not all boats, and we have to take that into account in terms of trade agreements in the future or we're not going to be doing trade agreements.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

That's a good point.

Am I out of time?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

You're way over. Even though you're Dutch, you're not going to get that much.

We're going to move over to the NDP.

Ms. Ramsey, you have three minutes. Go ahead.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

I'll actually continue my colleague's thought and say that this is something we have to mend. Working people are the reason we're facing this right now, because they felt left out. We have to talk about fairness in trade. We have to talk about the way that it impacts workers and communities. If that means a transition into other types of jobs, if that means letting them know how closely tied their jobs are to NAFTA....

I drive an F-150. I built F-150 engines in Windsor, Ontario. I love the bumper sticker; I think it's important. We have to tell the story of trade in a positive way, and the way that we do that in this renegotiation is that we address the inequalities. We go head-on to the inequalities that people have responded to, and we fix them. It's the best way forward for us because we're a trading nation. It's incredibly important, and we have to have trade with other countries.

My question really goes around the labour chapter and how we can include workers' rights to organize and bargain collectively for those better wages and working conditions that will level the playing field across our countries. To what extent are workers in Mexico able to organize and bargain collectively for better wages and working conditions?

4:45 p.m.

Co-Chair, Working Group on the Future of North America, Mexican Council on Foreign Relations

Agustín Barrios Gómez

I was a congressman for a centre-left party in the previous legislature. In terms of freedom to organize and to strike, those freedoms are perfectly safeguarded. The thing is that the organized labour movement has been more about filling their own pockets than it has about protecting workers' rights. The only problem is that internally they are democratic institutions, but that feudalism within our unions is popularly backed by the workers in general, so that is an issue.

Now, the party that I ran under is promoting a dramatic increase in minimum wage in Mexico. We're talking about a 200% increase, obviously staggered over time and whatnot. I think we need to revisit those issues.

I'd like to come back to defending trade as a freedom, because ideologically I think we've also been remiss. Trade is a freedom. Trade is by nature fair insofar as it is voluntary, and if we allow people to say, “Look, you know, I believe that brown people are getting a subsidy”—this is in the United States—“I don't like all these brown people receiving welfare because I see them as these welfare queens” and all of that, all of these horrible images get created over the years.

Yet they turn around, and the first thing that they want is protectionism, and protectionism is nothing but welfare that's paid for by consumers. These subsidies that people are asking for are of the same tenor as welfare, and we can't let them get away with this idea that protectionism doesn't have costs. It has significant costs. People will lose their jobs, and people's general welfare will go down insofar as they won't be able to buy the goods that they want.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you, sir.

We're going to wrap up. We have one more MP.

Welcome, Mr. Longfield. You're the member of Parliament from Guelph. It's good to see you here joining our very ambitious.... I'm not going to use too many more adjectives about our committee.

4:45 p.m.

An hon. member

Best committee on the Hill....

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

It's the best committee on the Hill, there we go.

Mr. Longfield, you have the floor for the last five minutes. Go ahead.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to everybody for being here. It's great for me to be able to hear this part of the conversation as I sit on the industry, science and technology committee and I also sit on the standing committee for agriculture, so trade is overlapping in both those areas.

I want to start with Mr. Ortega. I'm also past-president of the Guelph Chamber of Commerce and board member of the Ontario Chamber of Commerce, so the chamber network is something I hold near and dear.

Worker mobility is an issue that the Canadian Chamber has focused on, on our side of the border as well, and mobility between Canada and Mexico is something that we're trying to improve. Part of our bilateral has to look at labour mobility. Would you be able to make a brief comment on that?

4:45 p.m.

President, Canadian Chamber of Commerce in Mexico

Armando Ortega

This is certainly an area where NAFTA could make an enormous change. Between Mexico and Canada, we have this almost 40-year-old temporary working program for our people who work in your agricultural sector.

However, I think now the country of Mexico is fit to provide under a more formal framework—NAFTA or another bilateral one—a supply of skilled workers, our professionals, doctors, etc. We should explore it under NAFTA, and we should explore it bilaterally. There is no impediment whatsoever.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Thank you.

I think CETA is an example of a progressive trade deal that we've just signed, which could be used as an example.

With little time, I want to look over to Mr. Dade and Mr. Ortega—not to leave out Mr. Barrios Gómez or Mr. Robertson. We can look at the Canadian companies that are operating in Mexico or Mexican companies in Canada such as Dina and Motor Coach in Winnipeg; Linamar in Guelph, which has offices in Mexico for supply of auto parts; and Grupo Bimbo and Canada Bread, as mentioned earlier.

How do we pull those companies together to look at the advantages of the bilateral agreements and make sure they understand that the bilateral agreements, under article 2205, would still be in place? Where are we with those conversations?

4:50 p.m.

Director, Centre for Trade and Investment Policy, Canada West Foundation

Carlo Dade

That would be a question, I think, for Minister Champagne, to see what sort of outreach has been done.

I would note that on Canadian companies in Mexico, the examples you mentioned are far too few. We have underperformed in the Mexican market.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Yes.

4:50 p.m.

Director, Centre for Trade and Investment Policy, Canada West Foundation

Carlo Dade

We are fourth in the Mexican market in terms of softwood lumber.

Two years ago we went to the Alberta forestry association and said, “Softwood lumber is coming back again. You're looking at Asia. Why are you number four in Mexico, after Chile and Brazil?” Their response was a shrug of shoulders.

Canadian businesses haven't taken up the challenge or the opportunities in Mexico. It's not the fault of this government or the previous government. It's on the Canadian private sector, which has had too easy a time in the United States.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Sometimes an opportunity comes because of changes. We have 7% of Mexico's agriculture imports coming from Canada in agri-food and seafood, and in a $25-billion market we're getting only $1.7 billion out. We need to look at what we can do together, and how we can approach the outside world together, off the North American shores.

Are there any other comments from around the table on that? I think this committee could pick up on that piece.

4:50 p.m.

Co-Chair, Working Group on the Future of North America, Mexican Council on Foreign Relations

Agustín Barrios Gómez

I would back what Carlo was saying. I think we've been remiss with respect to the opportunities that we share, and a lot of it has to do with the fact that we're not establishing those links properly.

I am very happy to hear that a committee group is going to come down to Mexico. It's going to be wonderful to have you down here, and I think that's a great first step.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

The Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce has done a lot of international work. They've done it all over the world, but to focus on Canada and Mexico, I think...just to throw it over to the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce and get the chamber network behind it on both sides of the border.

4:50 p.m.

Director, Centre for Trade and Investment Policy, Canada West Foundation

Carlo Dade

Manitoba, I think, is the leader in Canada in terms of engagement. What CentrePort has done in terms of taking advantage of things that the previous government put on the table, with the financing initiative, and with reaching out to Mexican suppliers to use Winnipeg as a basis for distribution in North America, sets the example for the rest of Canada.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Then we have some momentum going into talks with the States.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you, Mr. Longfield. Those were good comments and questions.

Those were great presentations today, gentlemen, and very timely for us. Thank you for spending your precious time. We are going to work on getting down to see you folks in Mexico. We will be forwarding our final report in the fall for all of you to see. If you have any more comments as we go through this journey, we don't mind receiving them on the way through, because I'm sure there are all kinds of turns that are going to happen for us.

Thank you, again, for coming.

Folks, we're going to suspend for two minutes, and then we're going to go into future business.

[Proceedings continue in camera]