Evidence of meeting #82 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ethan Clarke  Vice-President, Canadian Freelance Union-Unifor
Mathew Wilson  Senior Vice-President, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
Toby Sanger  Senior Economist, Canadian Union of Public Employees
Nathalie Blais  Research Representative, Canadian Union of Public Employees
Victoria Lennox  Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Startup Canada
Michael Holden  Chief Economist, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters

4:25 p.m.

Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Startup Canada

Victoria Lennox

What I can tell you is that we have a blockchain cluster developing in Montreal that everyone is looking at, and that's why Amazon is looking at that as one of their key destinations. It's all about networks and opening up the global market to these networks. I don't know the intricacies of blockchain, but what I do know is that it helps, through artificial intelligence, to predict and connect. I think that's very powerful.

As a nation, we have to become experts in this. One of our board directors is Eli Fathi, the founder of MindBridge AI, which uses blockchain in AI in order to solve all the world's problems, they are about to go IPO.

I would recommend there be an information session on just what blockchain is and its potential impact. I know Alex Benay and his group over at TBS are really interested in this and its potential for citizen service.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC

Who and where are those people?

4:25 p.m.

Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Startup Canada

Victoria Lennox

They are CIO. It's really cool. Even start-ups think it's cool. They have developed this digital service organization within the Treasury Board Secretariat to look at how governments serve citizens through AI and blockchain. I think that group has the potential to transform how citizens interact with the government, starting with TBS and then, hopefully, moving outwards.

October 23rd, 2017 / 4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC

I think that's the word I'm looking for: transform. It's not just “modernize”, because we know that for businesses, say, 25 years ago, having a website was a big thing, and there are still some who are struggling in my own riding with having a website. It's so clunky. I even remember trying to put a website together myself, God love us, because it was your pamphlet, your poster, your office door. It's what you had.

However, we're beyond that. We're not talking about just having a platform now. Even companies like eBay and so on are sort of traditional platforms. I come from a banking background. You have the trusted payment system. Are we dancing around here, when we really should be taking some revolutionary steps?

4:30 p.m.

Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Startup Canada

Victoria Lennox

I don't think we're dancing around. One of the biggest scares Canadians have is AI and how it's going to displace the workforce. If our businesses can't even get a website up and running, we have a huge problem as a nation. Then they have to go mobile first, so I think it's about both. I think we have to lead when it comes to the revolutionary technologies that will create the future of humanity, while we get everybody online and get them mobile first. Otherwise, they won't be able to compete or benefit from the economy we're creating.

It's a really exciting opportunity. There's a skills gap and an adoption gap, and that's disproportionately felt with marginalized and smaller communities. But I don't think we're dancing around it.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC

There's a heck of an opportunity there, Victoria. You were talking about education, and certainly for women to pick this up. I've heard about the organization, Girls Who Code. That is very exciting. I know we had some initiative funding and I tried to get it out in my community.

We were far from understanding how it worked. It was really new and exciting. I think we'll be hearing from one of those groups at our next meeting.

Women and girls are very important, but so are the children in all communities, as you mentioned. Children need to know more than how to text; they need to understand how to do programming. Isn't that right?

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Sorry, Ms. Shanahan, but I'm a very—

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC

I lapsed into French there. I do that when I get excited.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

I'm a very punctual chair.

Your time is up, but there might be some time left, if you want to share it.

We're going to move over to the Conservatives. As I understand, they're splitting their time. I think Mr. Carrie and Mr. Allison are going.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Ms. Lennox, I want to talk to you a little bit. You brought up the idea of protectionism. Sometimes, culturally, we really are concerned about moving into a new way of doing things. We have a balance of wanting to protect the older jobs, but then in the new economy, some of these jobs, if we don't embrace them and get the policy right, we might lose.

You mentioned that you work with 50 nations. The concern we always have is government policy that puts our own Canadian companies at disadvantages, basically, our own policies putting companies at disadvantages. I was wondering if you're able to give this committee your top three recommendations that need to be put in place sooner rather than later.

I've heard you speak before. You have such enthusiasm and passion, and you really want to get things done. I understand the urgency of this, and I don't want to see Canada miss out. Are there three things we can do quite quickly to make a huge difference that you might be able to recommend to us as a committee?

4:30 p.m.

Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Startup Canada

Victoria Lennox

These suggestions are all low-hanging fruit. All of them are low-hanging fruit.

The first one is that we can connect Corporations Canada with the start-up community in order to make sure every entrepreneur knows about all of the resources that exist in the Government of Canada. We can go to the provinces and municipalities, but there are so many resources and supports they don't know about. We just need to plug it together and we can get it done. That's number one.

Number two is that we need to work together to create a tax environment for entrepreneurial success. This is a bit harder, but I believe that some of the announcements this week are moving in the right direction of lowering the tax rate for small businesses and so on, but that's nothing we can do together. Let's get the taxes right. I'll leave that to you; you're the experts.

The third thing that I think we can work together on is also low-hanging fruit. It's the brand Canada. I have a charity in the U.K. that works with young entrepreneurs and is fully government funded. The U.K. government—UKTI, which is their trade and investment group—created a campaign called “Britain is Great”. No matter what airport you went into at the time, even though their economy was hit so hard by the last recession, you saw Richard Branson there and “Britain is Great”. The amount of pride you would have as a British citizen would be incredible.

Canada can do the same thing. We have great entrepreneurs here, and there's no reason we can't create a campaign. If we just improved the user interface, and we created a big campaign.... I have no marketing budget, and we're huge on social media. The world's looking at Startup Canada. There's nothing we can't do with those two things, and then you can get the taxes right. That would be really helpful.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Mr. Wilson, maybe I could ask you for your three, or you could expand on those. We were all so happy last week that the government decided to unbreak the promise they broke to lower it to 9%. We're very happy that we're getting down to 9%.

What other things could we do there?

4:35 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters

Mathew Wilson

I'll let my colleague....

4:35 p.m.

Chief Economist, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters

Michael Holden

First of all, we agree. I agree completely with Victoria's list. There are some excellent suggestions in there.

One of the points she made that I'd like to elaborate on, or offer our own take on, is the tax policy issue. I think that it's important. We 100% agree that it's important to have the tax and the regulatory systems right. What we think that means is that it needs to encourage entrepreneurship, innovation, and growth. It's the growth part of it that's important here.

We don't want to get stuck having a tax system that simply rewards companies for being small and remaining small and that creates a large marginal tax gap wall that prevents companies from growing beyond a certain size. That's one of the issues we have in the manufacturing sector. If you look at our industry compared with the U.S., Germany, or other advanced countries, we skew to the small end. It's not exclusively because of tax policy, but it doesn't help.

Tax innovation that will encourage investment in new technologies, new machinery and equipment, new skills training, and will encourage growth rather than being small would be a huge step in the right direction.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you, Mr. Carrie. You never left any time for your buddy there.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

What a shame.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Anyway, that's the way it rolls. We're going to move on. The NDP has the floor for three minutes.

Go ahead, Ms. Ramsey.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Your members pay tax. They pay value-added tax. Everyone who is investing and working in Canada pays tax. We need to level that playing field.

You need online platforms where you can share your product, whether it's freelance journalism or products that you're marketing, but this has to be done in a way that doesn't skew foreign countries or foreign corporations into having a benefit.

My last question will go to you, Mr. Clarke. How can we level the digital space for freelancers in the media in Canada?

4:35 p.m.

Vice-President, Canadian Freelance Union-Unifor

Ethan Clarke

I think there are a few ways that we could do that, which I spoke about in my statement: things like having a revenue levy on the domestic ISPs for injecting about $118 million into the production of Canadian news and entertainment; things like making sure that Netflix and Google are paying the same sales taxes as others; and making sure there is enough protection for Canadian content so that Canadian producers have a chance to produce Canadian content. That will help level out the field for competing against other countries.

4:35 p.m.

Research Representative, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Nathalie Blais

We agree with those three objectives, which we support. I would add that we absolutely have to maintain the cultural exemptions in our international treaties. The Trans-Pacific Partnership came up earlier. Culturally, there was a loss of quality, and restoring that in the North American Free Trade Agreement, or NAFTA, is absolutely crucial.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

All right, that's it.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

You have a minute left.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

What can I do in a minute? I'll throw in de minimis, then, in a minute and we'll have a brief conversation on—

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

When you're done, you're done. We can give that minute over to the Liberals if you want it.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC

That's a tough chair there.