Evidence of meeting #83 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was e-commerce.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Andrea Stairs  Managing Director, eBay Canada Limited
Peter Simons  Chief Executive Officer, La Maison Simons Inc.
Michael Geist  Canada Research Chair in Internet and E-commerce Law, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

4:40 p.m.

Canada Research Chair in Internet and E-commerce Law, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Dr. Michael Geist

I want to quickly chime in, even on that last question about the regional side, and recognize that there are at least two sides to this coin. There is also a consumer side, especially in rural communities where they don't have some of the stores and where the amount of consumer choice might be far less than what is available in an urban community. That ultimately means that they've often not had the choice or they've had to rely on, let's say, the Sears catalogue, if we go back decades.

E-commerce has created a far more level playing field from a consumer perspective in terms of massively increasing consumer choice. I would argue that if what we did was to say to every one of those micro-businesses, wherever they're located anywhere in the world, that one of their obligations is to collect and remit Canadian sales taxes, we're going find that many of those consumers are going to face the frustration we face from time to time of being told, sorry, they don't sell into our jurisdiction because the costs are simply far in excess of the kind of revenues it would generate.

Yes, it makes it easier for Canadian sellers because they don't face that competition, but from a consumer choice perspective, particularly in some of the regions where there is traditionally less choice, it makes a big difference.

In terms of payments, to your specific question, we're already seeing a lot happening, but frankly, we see far more happening in the United States with innovative payment services. We're very proud of our banking system and how secure it happens to be, but what it also means is that type of disruptive innovation in the financial payment sector is happening at a far faster pace in the United States than in Canada. Part of it is that we get the benefits of a secure banking system, but we also don't get the type of disruptive innovation that we're seeing elsewhere. Longer term, that's a real risk to the growth of e-commerce.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you, Mr. Peterson.

We're doing pretty good on time. I have a request for two short, quick questions, so quick questions and quick answers.

Madame Lapointe, go ahead.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

What is being discussed today is very interesting.

Mr. Simons, thank you for being here.

You referred earlier to education as one of the ways of making businesses more competitive as regards international e-commerce.

By the way, I would like to commend you on your investments in robotics.

I would like to hear your thoughts on that.

4:40 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, La Maison Simons Inc.

Peter Simons

The e-commerce movement requires a whole new skill set. Clearly, Quebec is facing a shortage of those skills right now. I am in favour of strengthening education. Essentially, it is the key to moving forward. We can build robotics, but then someone has to maintain and program the tools.

At my company, there are two people who have a doctorate in applied mathematics, and neither of them is in Canada. One is in France and the other in Iran. They are working on emerging projects.

In my opinion, education is part of infrastructure maintenance. Thought must be given to ensuring access to the skill set that is needed to compete with other companies.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Thank you very much.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Mr. Fonseca, do you have a quick question?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is to Ms. Stairs. It's in regard to large e-platform-type organizations like yours.

In terms of the collection of taxes locally and also your corporate taxes, are they kept here in Canada for all sales that happen in Canada or do you offshore those somewhere else in the world? All Airbnb's money goes to Ireland.

We're not sure, even if taxes are being collected locally.... I say that because of rural communities and others. You have to build roads, infrastructure, etc. If we're not collecting those taxes, those rural communities aren't going to be able to get that Internet infrastructure. We're not going to be able to build it. That's what I'd like to hear from you.

4:40 p.m.

Managing Director, eBay Canada Limited

Andrea Stairs

I work for an entity called eBay Canada Limited, which is a Canadian corporation. We collect and remit taxes on the services that we provide. On the fees that we charge our sellers, which is how we make revenue, we collect the sales tax and that's remitted to the federal government.

We also give our Canadian sellers the ability to create tax tables. They also can apply the appropriate tax based on the Canadian jurisdiction, so that in fact, they can also collect and remit taxes on the sale of goods.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you.

That wraps up the time and that wraps up our dialogue with the MPs.

Panellists, thank you very much. There were very different perspectives. We're definitely at a time of trade being different right now with e-commerce.

That's going to end this session. MPs, I have five minutes of new business. We're going to break for a minute and then get right back at it.

[Proceedings continue in camera]