Evidence of meeting #96 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fta.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Andrew Dixon  Senior Vice President, Trade and Business Development, Saint John Port Authority
Hassan Yussuff  President, Canadian Labour Congress
Angella MacEwen  Senior Economist, Canadian Labour Congress
Adriana Vega  Director, International Policy, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
René Roy  Vice-Chair, Canadian Pork Council
Martin Lavoie  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Pork International
Gary Stordy  Director, Public and Corporate Affairs, Canadian Pork Council

February 1st, 2018 / 8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Good morning, everyone. I know it's difficult to get started on time, but we'll get in our groove on this early-morning shift. Welcome, everybody.

As you know, this morning we are going to continue with our study dealing with potential agreements with the Canada-Pacific Alliance.

We have with us this morning two witnesses. We really appreciate you coming. We have the Canadian Labour Congress and we have the Saint John Port Authority. I think you have been with us before and we appreciate you coming back to our committee. If the presentations can be under five minutes, we can have good dialogue with the MPs.

We have the Saint John Port Authority through video conference. Mr. Dixon, welcome.

8:45 a.m.

Andrew Dixon Senior Vice President, Trade and Business Development, Saint John Port Authority

Good morning, everyone. I certainly appreciate the opportunity to appear before the committee, at least through technology.

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Excuse me, sir. We're losing you.

Maybe we can have the Canadian Labour Congress go ahead and the technicians can figure out our problem in the meantime.

You have the floor.

8:50 a.m.

Hassan Yussuff President, Canadian Labour Congress

Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

On behalf of the Canadian Labour Congress and its 3.3 million members, we thank you for affording us the opportunity to present our views here today. As you know, the CLC brings together national and international unions along with the provincial and territorial federations of labour and labour councils across the country working in every sector in our economy, and in all occupations in all parts of our country.

Today we appear to explain why we believe any free trade agreement between Canada and the Pacific Alliance—Peru, Colombia, Chile, and Mexico—should have people's well-being and workers' rights at its core. The old model of free trade agreements prioritized corporate rights over workers and the environment. We believe this contributed to global instability through inequalities of wealth and income, deregulation of financial services, and the removal of the levers once used by governments to support economic growth. In a new trade model, we should embrace the kinds of economic partnerships that have at their core a commitment to equality, public reinvestment, and economic renewal that is both sustainable and democratic.

Nearly 20 years ago, together with trade unions across the Americas, we articulated elements of such an alternative trade and investment agreement in Labour's Platform for the Americas. In the wake of the 2009 economic crisis, the international trade union movement made proposals that would put sustainable economic renewal and decent work at the centre of our recovery efforts. Now we have a government that is taking these suggestions seriously in their progressive trade agenda. Labour rights have never been treated equally to the many rights granted to investors but the ambitious labour chapter tabled in NAFTA marks a significant change. We hope the government continues to build on this effort in the Pacific Alliance talks. This would be especially meaningful since we know labour rights are precarious in Peru, Colombia, and Mexico, and that Canadian corporations have been bad actors on environmental issues and labour rights in many of these countries, but alternative trade models must go beyond stronger labour rights.

The ability of government to regulate in the public interest must be protected and the ability of government to take action on climate change must be a priority over investor rights. Canada must seek a much stronger exemption in all free trade agreements in a manner consistent with the Canadian government's obligations to indigenous peoples in Canada. All FTA texts should include a wide-ranging, comprehensive, and clear exemption of indigenous rights, freedoms, and interests, from the scope of the agreement.

The renegotiation of NAFTA set a new standard for consultation, collaboration, and inclusivity in trade talks, but that work has only just begun. We need to build on this. For example, making studies available that would show the likely economic and social impacts of this deal on a range of issues; as well as establishing a system of regular monitoring and assessment of specific outcomes of FTAs, both positive and negative.

For those who say progressive trade is a distraction, I ask why can we not have an agreement that has as its central goal the creation of decent jobs and sustainable development? The Canadian labour movement is determined to ensure that any new trade agreement deals are fair and are protective of workers' rights, public services, the government's right to regulate in the public interest, and our environment.

It is time to take a new approach to trade that puts the interests of working people and the environment first.

The last point I would make, and this is always something I try to clarify, is our members throughout this country work in sectors that highly depend on our ability to trade with other countries. We recognize the importance of trade, and more importantly, the need for us to expand it. At the same time we recognize we don't have to compromise the basic principle of workers' rights, the environment, and indigenous and women's rights in the context of how we trade going forward.

Thank you on behalf of the Canadian Labour Congress.

I look forward to any questions the committee may have.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you very much, sir.

We're going to try to get back to the Saint John Port Authority.

We're going to suspend for a few minutes here.

9 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Go ahead, you have the floor. If you can, be brief, and then we can have some dialogue.

9 a.m.

Senior Vice President, Trade and Business Development, Saint John Port Authority

Andrew Dixon

Okay, I'll try to be as brief as possible.

As members of the committee are aware, Port Saint John, also known as the Saint John Port Authority, is located on the Bay of Fundy and the southern coast of New Brunswick. Port Saint John provides a gateway into North America for maritime commerce. It handles bulk, break bulk, and container cargoes. Petroleum products, potash, containers, and cruise provide the mainstay of port business, while other commodities make varying contributions.

In recognition that many of today's consumer and manufactured goods move in containers, we are now focused on significant opportunities being presented with the completion of the Panama Canal expansion and anticipated trade growth for east coast ports. The port is well situated to take advantage of the north-south trade routes, as well as emerging opportunities in Europe and Asia.

We're focused on growth at Port Saint John, growth that includes building capacity at our cargo terminals, strengthening our business, developing collaboration with shipping and rail partners, and working with economic development agencies, such as ACOA, on international trade and foreign direct investment opportunities. We've seen results from this focus. Since 2012, we have had MSC, the world's second-largest container line, calling at Port Saint John on a weekly basis with a service to Freeport, Bahamas, and Caucedo, in Dominican Republic. Both offer transshipment destinations to countries further afield. Last year, CMA CGM, the world's third-largest container line, also began to call on a weekly basis. These two lines offer our importers and exporters competitive options and connections to global markets, but particularly in the north-south corridor.

To support these ambitious growth goals that we have, we needed strong terminal operations partners with a focus on international business development that is aligned with our own. In this regard, a major development took place last year when DP World became the new terminal operator of our WestSide facilities, and they're the fourth-largest operator in the world.

We have a long-standing connection with North America via CN's vast network, and we have recent success in partnership amongst short-line providers into the New England marketplace, expanding our target market and providing alternatives that were not previously cost-effective.

In our international marketing efforts, we have been working closely with ACOA on a north-south bilateral trade development, which includes Mexico, Brazil, and Chile. In fact, I will be travelling to those countries later this month, in conjunction with our cargo development manager, to engage in business meetings over a two-week period, designed to uncover opportunities for increased trade.

Our ongoing work with ACOA complements Canada's focus on trade growth with the Pacific Alliance countries of Chile, Mexico, Peru, and Colombia. Today our trade with these countries is valued at $31.7 billion for Canada, and $182 million of that is specifically Atlantic Canada. On the export side, our Canadian exports are $6 billion in goods to these four Pacific Alliance countries, and of this, nearly $118 million is exported from Atlantic Canada. Clearly, as a country, trade with Chile, Mexico, Peru, and Colombia is significant, and with trade agreements it's bound to grow.

Given our natural geographic advantages on the north-south trade route, our marine infrastructure capacity-building, and the trade and transportation partnerships we have established, we believe there are advantages for Port Saint John in the Pacific Alliance with Chile, Mexico, Peru, and Colombia.

For reasons I've outlined today, at Port Saint John we believe our regional and national economy will benefit from the introduction of reduced tariffs on importation of goods and materials from these countries.

Increasing imports at Port Saint John is a vital part in balancing trade in our container sector. Having more balance allows for increased cost-competitiveness for shippers and receivers at our port. Having greater import volumes at Port Saint John will also allow for better economies of scale for our existing exporters. Improving the balance of trade has been a major component of our north-south trade strategy.

In conclusion, we appreciate the attention of the committee and the invitation to provide comments today. For us, the opportunity for increased trade with the Pacific Alliance is about a brighter and more prosperous future for Port Saint John and our stakeholders through increased trade and competitiveness.

I hope I have been able to provide some information that the committee will find valuable as you carry out your important work. Now I'd be pleased to answer any questions you might have.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you, sir.

Our committee also had the pleasure of being at your port—I think it was last year or the year before, when we were doing the TPP study—so it's good to hear from you again.

We're going to start a dialogue with the MPs and we're going to start with the Conservatives for five minutes.

Mr. Hoback, you have the floor.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Andrew, it's great to see you here and to hear you today. I'm so excited that we have the port in Saint John. I think it's very important for Canada, especially when we start seeing the B.C. government doing what it's doing on the west coast and starting to restrict our ability to ship stuff through the west coast. It just means more things are going to go south and east, and we're going to need your port more and more.

In your presentation you talked about petroleum products coming through the port. Are you exporting petroleum products through your port, or are you importing?

9:05 a.m.

Senior Vice President, Trade and Business Development, Saint John Port Authority

Andrew Dixon

We're doing both, actually. We have Canada's largest refinery here, Irving Oil. Primarily we're importing crude oil, and then we're exporting refined petroleum products. We also have an LNG terminal, where we're importing LNG. Our tonnage of petroleum products makes up a huge portion of what we do as a port.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Again, that's all imported crude and exported refined products, so it's not Canadian oil that's being refined there, of course. That's partly disappointing, but in the same breath, I guess you've got to do what you've got to do.

I understand you guys had a challenge when PotashCorp closed its mine, which had exported a lot of potash through there. I understand you're picking up a lot of potash shipments at this point. Where are those shipments going? Are we seeing them going to the Asia-Pacific region, Brazil, and countries like that?

9:10 a.m.

Senior Vice President, Trade and Business Development, Saint John Port Authority

Andrew Dixon

Yes, we did have quite a major hit with the mine closure, and we expect that at some point it will reopen. But we had a record year of exports last year, as you are aware, and that was rail from Saskatchewan. The biggest market would be Brazil, but certainly Latin America, through other Latin American countries, through Central America, is primarily where most of our potash is destined.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

You talked about the Pacific Alliance, and of course when you think of the countries involved—other than Colombia—you'd say, “Well, they're all west coast markets for the west coast ports”. But you're very aggressive. You're saying you're going to get a lot of shipping activity into that region, of course, with the expansion of the Panama Canal.

Do you have any idea of the number of jobs this is going to create in your port and the economic spinoff for the region by having the ability to ship through your port to these markets?

9:10 a.m.

Senior Vice President, Trade and Business Development, Saint John Port Authority

Andrew Dixon

It's difficult to say. We really look at the whole bloc of Latin America in total. Two of the countries that we're discussing today are accessible from both east and west coasts. The other two are accessible through the Panama Canal or around the southern tip of South America.

We're just starting to see—particularly in the container world with CMA CGM—imports from both Mexico and Chile, and we would expect to have reach into Peru and Colombia. And of course the east coast of South America is a major target.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Again, you can't say the number of jobs, but it's definitely going to secure the port and the port's future by having that extra capacity in those markets to ship into. Is that fair to say?

9:10 a.m.

Senior Vice President, Trade and Business Development, Saint John Port Authority

Andrew Dixon

Yes. On the whole, we need all of our market sectors and we need everything to be running on eight cylinders.

We have a huge modernization project with the container terminal, and we're investing $205 million, along with our partners in the federal and provincial governments. It's all part of the formula that's going to grow the port in all sectors, but particularly in the container sector where really, in Atlantic Canada, the options for shippers are Halifax and Saint John, so it's important to have those two options.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Again, if it weren't for CETA and now the Pacific Alliance—and of course we have trade deals in these countries as we speak—you wouldn't have that growth, would you?

9:10 a.m.

Senior Vice President, Trade and Business Development, Saint John Port Authority

Andrew Dixon

No, we would be restricted. There would always be some import and export activity, even with tariffs and other obstructions to trade, if you like, but a trade deal, and free trade, and so on only serve to open up those channels. We always see, when these trade deals are successfully negotiated, that volumes increase. We take those opportunities to our exporters in the region, and importers as well.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Just one quick question, you're a unionized port, are you not?

9:10 a.m.

Senior Vice President, Trade and Business Development, Saint John Port Authority

Andrew Dixon

We are, yes.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Okay, so these are unionized jobs.

9:10 a.m.

Senior Vice President, Trade and Business Development, Saint John Port Authority

Andrew Dixon

Yes, they are ILA.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you.

We're going to move to the Liberals now for five minutes.

Madam Ludwig, you get the floor.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Good morning, Andrew, how are you?

Obviously, my riding is New Brunswick Southwest, which borders on the Port of Saint John, so thank you so much for being here today.

I have a couple of questions for you. One is on the environmental side, and I'll just wait to go on that one, but the other one is on the infrastructure. Certainly a great deal of work is being done with the Saint John port. I wonder if you can comment on the adequacy or the challenges regarding rail and an adequate number of truck drivers and trucking in the Saint John area for rail-on/rail-off.

9:15 a.m.

Senior Vice President, Trade and Business Development, Saint John Port Authority

Andrew Dixon

Specifically, first of all, with respect to rail, we have a great connection through New Brunswick Southern Railway, which is the rail line that purchased, about 20 years ago, a short-line from CP. Through New Brunswick Southern we connect right in Saint John with CN Rail, and up through Moncton and then into Central Canada. Then also through New Brunswick Southern we can go down through Maine, the Central Maine & Quebec Railway, connect to CP near Montreal, or down through the Pan Am rail system into the U.S., with CSX and Norfolk Southern. We actually have optionality in rail, which isn't always the case on the east coast.