Evidence of meeting #10 for International Trade in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aluminum.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Donat Pearson  President, Syndicat National des Employés de l'Aluminium d'Arvida Unifor - Local 1937
Éric Gilbert  Vice-President, Syndicat National des Employés de l'Aluminium d'Arvida Unifor - Local 1937
Mike Kilby  President and Chief Executive Officer, Dajcor Aluminum
Brian Topp  Partner, KTG Public Affairs
Jamie Pegg  General Manager, Honey Bee Manufacturing Ltd.
Shelley Bacon  Chief Executive Officer, Northern Cables Inc.
Todd Stafford  President, Northern Cables Inc.
Scott D. Smith  Manager, Components, Systems and Integration, Honey Bee Manufacturing Ltd.
Leigh Smout  Executive Director, World Trade Centre Toronto, Toronto Region Board of Trade
Tabatha Bull  Chief Operating Officer, Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business
Bridgitte Anderson  President and Chief Executive Officer, Greater Vancouver Board of Trade

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)) Liberal Judy Sgro

I am calling the meeting to order of the Standing Committee on International Trade.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, February 6, 2020, we are studying Bill C-4, an act to implement the agreement between Canada, the United States of America and the United Mexican States.

Welcome to our fourth session.

The witnesses with us this afternoon for this panel are, from Dajcor Aluminum, Mike Kilby, president and chief executive officer, by video conference from Chatham, Ontario.

From KTG Public Affairs, we have Brian Topp.

From Syndicat National des Employés de l'Aluminium d'Arvida Unifor-Local 1937, we have Donat Pearson, president, and Éric Gilbert, vice-president.

Monsieur Pearson, I will turn the floor over to you.

3:30 p.m.

Donat Pearson President, Syndicat National des Employés de l'Aluminium d'Arvida Unifor - Local 1937

Good afternoon, everyone.

The Syndicat national des employés de l'aluminium d'Arvida was founded in 1937. The first primary aluminum production facilities were constructed in Arvida after the First World War, around 1926.

Currently, our union is made up of nine certified units. They are: the Complexe Jonquière—hourly and office workers, the Arvida Research and Development Centre, the Laterrière plant—hourly and office workers, the spent pot lining treatment plant, Transport Ferroviaire RS Alma, the Petits Lingots Saguenay plant, and the Énergie Électrique Sud section. Our organization represents around 1,500 active workers and more than 4,000 retirees.

Since 2006, a lot has been done, including the implementation of a new business model—the use of subcontracting—taking over the new salary-funded retirement plan and the drug insurance program for active and retired employees, in order to maintain activity at the Centre Électrolyse Ouest, and to provide a transition to the AP-60 pilot plant. That project currently has 38 pots, from a possible 200 pots and more.

The lack of protection for Canadian aluminum in the Canada—United States—Mexico Agreement, or CUSMA, is putting into jeopardy the expansion projects for phases 2 and 3 of the new AP-60 technologies.

We know that Mexico produces no primary aluminum. However, nothing prevents them from buying aluminum from countries like China, Russia, and so on, at a low price and then flooding the American market, our principal importer. About 85% of Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean's aluminum production is exported to the United States, a large part of which goes to the automotive industry.

I now want to talk about the impact of the agreement on the workforce.

The Centre Électrolyse Ouest will have no operating permit after 2025 and is scheduled to be closed in the coming years. All the projects that are put on ice will affect several hundred direct and indirect jobs providing good working conditions. The direct and indirect impact on jobs affects workers from Rio Tinto, subcontractors, construction workers, local suppliers and regional equipment suppliers.

Any phases of the projects that Rio Tinto does not bring to completion have a number of impacts on the workforce.

3:35 p.m.

Éric Gilbert Vice-President, Syndicat National des Employés de l'Aluminium d'Arvida Unifor - Local 1937

According to a study commissioned by our union, the city of Saguenay, the city of Alma, the Syndicat des travailleurs de l'aluminium d'Alma, and the Aluminum Valley Society, creating and maintaining jobs is very important, if you refer to the table. We can come back to the table later to explain what it shows.

In 2024, the year halfway between 2020 and 2029, we can see that the operations of phase 2 and 3 of the AP-60 plant in Jonquière, not considering the possible closure of the Arvida plant—the old plant—will generate, across Quebec, a total of 600 direct jobs in plant activities, 580 indirect jobs with suppliers and 326 induced jobs at the consumption end, for a combined total of 1,506 jobs in person-years, and $505.1 million in new expenditures in the Quebec economy in 2024.

The average annual salary is $81,125 for direct jobs, $62,953 for indirect jobs and $40,828 for induced jobs, for a total payroll of $98.5 million in 2024 or an average salary per job generated of $65,404 per year.

In closing, ratifying this agreement with no protection for the aluminum sector will have major negative impacts on our workers.

Our expertise in aluminum, the greenest in the world because of its low carbon footprint, as well as our research and development centres, are major assets that need to be protected.

For all those reasons, we are asking the Government of Canada, as well as the opposition parties, to establish a traceability mechanism for aluminum produced and cast in North America. The steel industry must be protected in a similar way to the steel industry.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thanks very much, both of you, for that very quick presentation. It gives us more time for questions from the members.

We'll stay on aluminum for a minute and go to Mike Kilby, president and chief executive officer of Dajcor Aluminum.

Go ahead, Mr. Kilby.

3:35 p.m.

Mike Kilby President and Chief Executive Officer, Dajcor Aluminum

Thank you, committee members, for allowing me to attend remotely. This accommodation is much appreciated.

The brief I've submitted has to do with the elimination of the 70% North American-sourced aluminum content for the automotive industry.

In my industry of aluminum extrusion, China has shown an unrelenting desire to dump aluminum extrusion into the United States market and the Canadian market. The European Union initiated its own anti-dumping investigation in February 2020. Both Canada and the U.S. have anti-dumping and countervailing duties in place to stop this dumping.

Mexico is a non-producer of aluminum. Mexico does not have aluminum extrusion anti-dumping duties with China. Therefore, Mexico doesn't have an inherent interest in seeing the aluminum content not being sourced in North America.

The automotive market is the largest and fastest-growing market for aluminum extrusions as well. Aluminum sheet and castings are also impacted, as is raw aluminum, as you've just heard from the previous witnesses.

Several events of tariff circumvention by China have been discovered and stopped through our industry association, the Aluminum Extruders Council, a U.S.-based association that most extruders in North America belong to. There are more in process.

The elimination of the 70% aluminum content requirement for autos will open up a very big back door for those Chinese extrusions to enter the U.S. and Canadian markets and will directly impact jobs in the extrusion manufacturing, parts manufacturing and primary metal-producing industries in Canada and the U.S.A.

That's all I have in my notes. The rest is contained in my brief.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

All right. Thank you very much.

Mr. Topp, of KTG Public Affairs, it's good to see you. The floor is yours.

3:40 p.m.

Brian Topp Partner, KTG Public Affairs

It's good to see you.

Let me begin by thanking you, Madam Chair and members of the committee, for inviting me here today. My bet is that I was invited to come and talk to you because I was serving on the minister's advisory committee on this matter with a bunch of others. Let me also begin by telling you that I had quite an interesting ringside seat in these negotiations. That being so, it's quite a pleasure to see that you all get to join me in all this fun and decode these issues and address them in the public interest. I'm grateful for this opportunity to share a few reflections and, if I may, offer the committee one piece of advice.

I have two opening compliments. My first compliment is to say that I really do think, having watched these negotiations, that Canada was extremely well served by its negotiating team. They deserve to be thanked for their work. Canada, in my view, had the most experienced and thoughtful and prepared and competent set of officials at the table. I'd say our officials had the important comparative advantage of being rationally led. If I can say this across the partisan fence, Minister Freeland did an excellent job in her role and thoroughly earned her recent promotion. It was a pleasure to watch her work.

My second opening compliment is to my own tribe's trade critic, the honourable Daniel Blaikie from Elmwood—Transcona, who is apparently talking in the House right now. Last week's agreement between the NDP opposition and the government over ratification was another nice piece of bargaining, in my view, but it's also something else. It's an example, which I hope you're all watching, of how empowered, well-informed and responsible members of Parliament can take advantage of their leverage during periods of minority government to open the windows and turn on the lights in this place and renew accountability and transparency and democratic debate; nicely done.

About this agreement, I recommend that this committee refer USMCA, the son of NAFTA, to the House of Commons for ratification. I recommend this for three reasons. First, I think this agreement should be ratified because it captures an extraordinary moment in history. It's an extraordinary moment when the President of the United States, the Senate of the United States, the House of Representatives of the United States, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party all agree that cheap-labour-seeking, race-to-the-bottom trade agreements have gravely hurt American workers, have therefore gravely hurt the United States, and are therefore bad ideas that need to be fixed.

That's a true revolution in world trade after decades in which American governments of all hues set the tone around the world by pursuing a very different agenda. They aggressively pursued rules that drove the offshoring of North American jobs for the purpose of capturing low wages and standards overseas, driving down incomes, pensions and terms of work here in North America. In lieu of that, here we have a trade agreement, much improved by the U.S. House of Representatives, that takes some first steps towards raising standards, raising incomes and improving access to unionization and free collective bargaining. It actually intends to enforce these steps. That, I submit, is something that we should grab. It is something that we should build on.

Second, in my view, this agreement should be ratified because it frees Canada from chapter 11 of NAFTA. This committee is familiar with the arguments. I won't rehearse them here, but let's keep this point clearly in view. The public interest in achieving this is hard to overstate. Our sovereignty was in some respects fundamentally undermined by this now quietly buried investor-state dispute settlement mechanism. I don't think Canadian exporters to the United States are going to miss it much, given how much leverage the United States government could bring to bear against Canadian companies who tried to use it south of the border. I'll return to this point about leverage in my one piece of advice to you.

Third, in my view, this agreement should be ratified because it abolishes the proportionality clause in the energy chapter. This clause was one of the principal American gains from the original free trade agreement and from NAFTA. It was a highly problematic constraint on Canadian sovereignty that Mexico exempted itself in NAFTA, and we're well shot of it. That said, the quiet death of the energy proportionality clause, and the fact that our American partners don't value it anymore and have quietly let it die, says something important about the underlying realities of Canada-U.S. trade. That gets us to my piece of advice for you.

I strongly advise you to say the following to your colleagues in Parliament, in addition to recommending ratification: If there's any lesson in this whole USMCA story, a renegotiation that Canada didn't go looking for, it's this. We are far, far too dependent on trade with the United States, nowhere more so than our energy trade, which our American partners felt they no longer had an interest in guaranteeing.

We, therefore, have dangerously little leverage when the random clock-spins of politics south of the border put our economy at risk. Thus, we must, as a matter of urgent and pressing necessity, aggressively and systematically invest in our new trade agreements with the EU and with the Asia-Pacific, backed up by a real, coherent plan that weaves the federal government, the provinces and territories and the private sector together in joint effort, and pursued with determination for many years to come, even when it's not fashionable.

We need better leverage. We need to re-empower ourselves in North America by growing and deepening our trade relationships with partners outside North America.

We got lucky this round. The target was Mexico. Then we got doubly lucky. Amazingly, the goal was to leverage up instead of leverage down. However, counting on luck isn't a wise strategy for any country. Having bought some time, we shouldn't go to sleep because what just happened with the USMCA wasn't just a bullet that we skilfully dodged and that Parliament can quietly celebrate by quietly ratifying this agreement. It was a big wake-up call.

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you all very much.

We will go to our members.

Mr. Martel.

February 25th, 2020 / 3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses who are with us today.

Traceability is very important. We are well aware of that and we would like it to be a little more robust.

My question goes to the two witnesses from my region.

In your opinion, is it because of CUSMA that $6 billion in investments in Quebec are compromised?

3:45 p.m.

President, Syndicat National des Employés de l'Aluminium d'Arvida Unifor - Local 1937

Donat Pearson

In part. Rio Tinto is waiting to see whether it will be possible to open the market and to take advantage of the increase anticipated in the coming years. When it comes to increasing primary production in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean, the employer is quite guarded about whether the impact will be limited, or whether it is because of the fear of what is often called the commitment to foreign markets.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

China has produced more aluminum in the last 10 years than Canada has in 100 years. What could secure our place in the global market for aluminum?

3:45 p.m.

President, Syndicat National des Employés de l'Aluminium d'Arvida Unifor - Local 1937

Donat Pearson

In Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean, we are developing the Elysis zero-carbon technology. We use green energy to produce aluminum and we emit no greenhouse gases. The use of AP-60 technology with the Elysis project will set us apart and allow us to produce the best aluminum in the world.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Is it possible to deal with Mexico and the United States by highlighting the fact that our aluminum is greener than that from elsewhere? Is it possible to have an North American policy requiring the purchase of more aluminum produced in Canada, given that it is greener than that from elsewhere?

3:45 p.m.

President, Syndicat National des Employés de l'Aluminium d'Arvida Unifor - Local 1937

Donat Pearson

In an ideal world, it would be possible. The agreements could give preference to green aluminum in the North American market. Yes, indeed, that would be ideal. Everything is possible if we can come to an agreement, but Rio Tinto will have to want to abide by it.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

We believe that is possible to ensure that aluminum is traceable on the North American continent. Do you believe that as well?

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Syndicat National des Employés de l'Aluminium d'Arvida Unifor - Local 1937

Éric Gilbert

Yes, it is possible. If the production of aluminum goods is increasing in the United States and aluminum production in Canada is not increasing, it is because of an imbalance somewhere.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

For you, what does more robust traceability mean?

3:50 p.m.

President, Syndicat National des Employés de l'Aluminium d'Arvida Unifor - Local 1937

Donat Pearson

To start with, if the primary metal is smelted and cast in North America, either in Canada, the United States or Mexico, it is easy to know where it comes from and where it is processed, using the standards of the Aluminum Stewardship Initiative, the ASI, of which Rio Tinto is a part. That ensures the quality of the aluminum all along the production chain, from bauxite to alumina, right to the customers.

3:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Syndicat National des Employés de l'Aluminium d'Arvida Unifor - Local 1937

Éric Gilbert

In our region, each aluminum part we make is marked. It is easy to trace our aluminum. This is an easy mechanism to implement, and it just needs a little will on the part of governments.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

So we have traceability here.

How about other countries?

3:50 p.m.

President, Syndicat National des Employés de l'Aluminium d'Arvida Unifor - Local 1937

Donat Pearson

That is more difficult.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Okay.

That is all for me.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

Mr. Arya.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Topp, you said exactly what is quite obvious, but nobody wants to acknowledge that we are too dependent on the U.S.

I come from a business background. In business the fundamental thing is that we have to survive to grow, and we have to grow to survive.

The noise that we heard during the negotiations was from the sectors that just want to survive with this market alone, the automotive sector, the steel sector, the aluminum sector.

Let's take aluminum. Our friends are from the aluminum industry. No new additional capacity has been set up. No new smelters have been set up in Canada for the last 15 years. If my numbers are correct, 90% of aluminum exports go to just North American markets.

I spoke to the Aluminum Association when they were here as witnesses. I don't see any one of them even contemplating using the strength of the North American market, which is basically a captive market for them, as a centre to export to other parts of the world. That I did not hear.

In the steel sector 20 years back, the production was around 16 million or 17 million tonnes. Today it's around 15 million or 16 million tonnes.

Let's go beyond the aluminum and steel sectors. The trade between Canada and the U.S. during the last, say, seven years, is basically the same at around $320 billion of exports. Even today it is around the same, maybe $322 billion. The imports from the U.S. are still around the same, around $290 billion.

The market is there. It is a big market by any standards, but this market is not growing, and our industry is not even surviving. If you ask me, it is contracting. I did ask the Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters president if the manufacturing sector is a sunset industry here. Obviously he said no.

With your background, the political background and the background in administration, and you have been involved with this, and you know different sectors, I want to know if there is any sector in the Canadian economy that you can see that can increase investment and increase capacity to take on other markets in the world using this argument as the strength.

3:50 p.m.

Partner, KTG Public Affairs

Brian Topp

Thank you for the question.

Sitting as I am on a panel with a CEO from an aluminum company and with colleagues from the trade union movement for the aluminum company, you will understand if I will not comment on the aluminum industry and maybe let them do so, since they know their business.

Maybe I can offer you a few thoughts to begin with by talking about a sector I got to know fairly well recently, which is the Canadian energy sector. Just to underline my point, bearing in mind that energy is our largest export, you would really have to work hard to be more dangerously dependent on one market than we are in the Canadian energy sector on the United States.

The province got to live this when it was dealing with the consequences of carrying capacity shortages and had to go through a round of curtailment a year ago to deal with a grotesque discounting of Canadian energy in the United States market, because basically they could. They had a monopoly control over our supply and could basically state the price. Canada had to turn down its exports to tighten up the market and try to deal with a brutal price shock.

Just quickly to wrap up, what we saw in these negotiations was, with that kind of monopoly control over that big chunk of our export markets, the Americans don't care about it anymore. The reason they don't care enough about it to have a finger on it in these trade agreements is that they are now net exporters and are our principal competitors.

Our commodity exports, like energy, which is what the economy is built on, are obviously where we begin this discussion of trade diversification. Right now we are hard-wired to export even raw commodities to only one market with the consequences we can see, including the price shock in our largest commodity. We have to address that and, of course the Government of Canada is doing that with the Trans Mountain pipeline and taking other measures—