Evidence of meeting #28 for International Trade in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was technology.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
President, Heliene
We have been selling into the Caribbean for 10 years. We have been able to sell from western Europe all the way to Japan in the last 10 years. Right now we have concentrated in the U.S. because it is an easy market for a private, small company; it's more affordable.
Thinking outside the box, I think Africa, beyond Latin America and the Caribbean, should be our target. We have not been able to export there yet.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
For the Carbon Upcycling Technologies company, the opportunity on the cement side must be phenomenal. I know you don't want to tell us how many dollars a year in sales you're doing on that product, but is this something you're selling around the world, or are you, because of the cost of shipping, western Canada-based. Is this something you can sell all over North America?
12:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Carbon Upcycling Technologies
The business model will be licensing the technology, because concrete is a very localized product—
12:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Carbon Upcycling Technologies
I'm sorry.
It is a very localized product. Cement will usually move thousands of miles, but concrete in particular only moves in a 100-mile to 200-mile radius.
Our business model is to license the technology so that these companies can adopt this new way of making these lower-carbon materials and use them locally. Essentially we're looking at a model that would be more like that of an engineering company that's providing a novel technology or service.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
What areas are you located in currently? Is it just in Alberta, or do you have other locations?
12:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Carbon Upcycling Technologies
We're currently actively selling into the western Canadian market, primarily in Calgary and the southern Alberta market. We are, however, at a very late stage in some licensing agreements with a couple of groups in the U.S., one in Europe and one in Asia.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much, Mr. Sinha.
We will move on to Mr. Dhaliwal, please, for five minutes.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC
Madam Chair, thank you.
Thank you to all the presenters, and particularly to the companies that are playing a key role in making Canada a world leader when it comes to the environment and clean technologies.
My question, Madam Chair, will go to Heliene and to Carbon Upcycling Technologies.
We know that clean tech is a growing market worldwide, as mentioned earlier, and that is the reason our government has put an investment of $21 million over the next five years into this budget, and $4.3 million is going to the trade commissioner service to promote Canadian clean tech abroad.
I would like to ask how good your work experience is with the TCS to access new market shares.
12:50 p.m.
President, Heliene
To start, it has been excellent. If we go back to 2013, we have used the service of the Foreign Affairs' local group in Japan and that allowed us to export to Japan, then. There is an installation in the southern island of Fukuoka with Canadian solar modules.
We have done work in Argentina, in Brazil, in Mexico and in Ghana, so I would say it is very simple, very easy, to work with TCS, and their help is invaluable. They are really good.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC
Thank you.
I'll go to Carbon Upcycling Technologies, please.
12:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Carbon Upcycling Technologies
The trade commissioner service has been quite effective in helping us explore partnerships in different areas. I would say candidly that it has been a hit and miss in many areas. In some cases we found the trade commissioner service—for example, in Paris, France—to be extremely well engaged. I think that was a function also of how the local market works. It's very centralized, and there are few and bigger companies there versus the more fragmented market, for example, in Denver or in some other areas in the U.S.
Our experience has been great in some cases and not so great in others, but much of it boils down to capacity. I think some specific insights for the commissioners, some specific KPIs that help them look at what start-up companies need to succeed and how they can help achieve that would be very helpful across the board. I think sometimes that's not as obvious, because they're dealing with much bigger companies.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC
Did the COVID-19 situation have an effect, or were you able to communicate virtually?
12:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Carbon Upcycling Technologies
That is an excellent question.
I would say that, in one sense, it needed a completely different rethinking of the process, because we actually saw that before, when you had to schedule meetings with groups in Europe or even in the States, they would schedule them two or three months in advance because they expected you to come and do it in person. Since COVID, we actually saw a lot of direct communication with those customers or potential buyers, so it ended up becoming a lot more streamlined. To be honest, our engagement with the trade commissioner office since COVID has not been very active. We were able to go directly to the customers in most instances.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC
Thank you.
Madam Chair, nuclear power has been of interest to me, particularly having been born and raised in a country where there is pollution, and nuclear power can play a key role. I grew up in a town that was powered by water energy.
I would like to ask the industry how nuclear power can play a green recovery role, in particular not limited to Canada or North America, but across the globe?
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
12:55 p.m.
President & Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Nuclear Association
Thank you for the question, Mr. Dhaliwal.
When I started in the renewables business 20 years ago, we had 36% non-emitting electricity on the world's grids. Today, 20 years later, after a lot of investment and incredible adoption of renewables, we're still at 36% non-emitting electricity. We haven't moved the dial in 20 years. That's because we continue to partner fossil fuels with these great renewable resources like solar and wind, which are so important.
We need to put nuclear in there to partner with wind and solar, and small modular reactors are ideally suited to help do that. It's very important that we partner nuclear with renewables, going forward.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you, Mr. Gorman.
Mrs. Gray, you're on for the remaining three minutes.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'd like to open it up to any of the witnesses who'd like to answer this. I know that many of you have spoken about different barriers that you have and some of your issues.
Do you feel in our present trade deals that we have something to offer to help your organization export, or is there something that can be done in future trade negotiations that is missing right now to help with that?
12:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Carbon Upcycling Technologies
Yes, one suggestion I would have is to tie some of the free trade elements of an agreement to certain commitments with climate targets. I think there is definitely a lot that can be done by committing that certain clauses or certain elements of that agreement only come into effect if specific measures are taken in sectors, not just in construction but with overall decarbonization goals.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
12:55 p.m.
President & Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Nuclear Association
Thank you for the question. I'd offer this observation. We recently observed something remarkable. This has to do with how our federal government financing strategizes over who it's going to support. Recently the Romania opportunity opened up to build two new nuclear plants and refurbish an existing one. Romania is insisting on CANDU technology. In the United States, their funding mechanisms, like the EXIM Bank, reached out to industry, identified this as a business opportunity and a strategic opportunity, engaged industry to go after the opportunity and gave them $8 billion.
As you know, the way our financing system works is very reactive here in Canada, as I'm observing. Industry has to go to government to apply for money to go after these opportunities. It's not a joint effort of both industry and government looking at them together. We almost lost out on working in Romania with our own technology because of this reactive stance of the government on financing, so I hope we can get more proactive on that.
1 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Electric Mobility Canada
As I mentioned earlier, we have a document that we put together called “Public Procurement of Electric Vehicles, Recharging Infrastructures and Related Products/Services in Canada: An Analysis under the Rules of International Trade”. I think we'll find that very informative in that it could help electric mobility companies working in Canada and the U.S. to get more projects, instead of just the lowest bidder.