Evidence of meeting #30 for International Trade in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lng.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Travis Allan  Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.
Nicolas Pocard  Vice-President Marketing , Ballard Power Systems Inc.
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Christine Lafrance
Peter Zebedee  Chief Executive Officer, LNG Canada
Hari Suthan Subramaniam  Chief of Strategic Growth, Opus One Solutions

Noon

Chief of Strategic Growth, Opus One Solutions

Hari Suthan Subramaniam

I would say a couple of things. One is to have a bit more holistic look from inside the government as we engage with companies, again focusing on more scale-up. Can the hand of government come in broadly to help our companies that are starting to scale up to move internationally?

One thing I would re-echo, which I think my colleagues would share, is the ability to look at funding and financing as a way to help companies enter a market. The trade commissioner service and the others are fantastic at making their connections and the networks, and we can definitely drive to get the deals ourselves, but what makes it easier is if you come together and say, “Let us ensure that we get into that market”. We find that our European colleagues are doing a much better job from a government perspective in really pushing their companies to enter such markets.

We've done a great job, but that doesn't mean we can sit on our laurels. I will say we need to competitively benchmark what others are doing and ensure that we do the same amount of support for our companies so we can be leaders globally, while at the same time—a couple of my colleagues shared this—we look at and create a domestic market.

There is a little bit of a mismatch, I would say, Madam Ashton, in that we look at domestic policy and domestic funding as being a bit aloof from helping companies to go international. The Americans, as we talked about, are linking it together. I'm not saying we need a buy Canada framework, but there are different avenues by which we can ensure Canadian companies do prosper while keeping trade regulations open for international companies to compete with us at home.

Noon

NDP

Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB

Thank you.

I would say that I, for one, do support a buy Canada framework. There is much to be gained, and I agree with you that there is so much work to be done here within our own country in prioritizing the work that Canadian researchers and companies are already undertaking.

Because buy America has come up quite a bit, I want to ask AddÉnergie and Ballard if you could make known to this committee if you think Canada should be exempt from the buy America policy.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Give short answers, please.

12:05 p.m.

Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.

Travis Allan

That would be our preferred outcome, certainly. We think it gives the best products to the U.S. market, and we really hope there is a way to come to some sort of agreement for an exemption.

12:05 p.m.

Vice-President Marketing , Ballard Power Systems Inc.

Nicolas Pocard

Absolutely, I support that. Our supply chain is so integrated between the U.S. and Canada that we really need to support that exemption.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

We will go on to Mr. Aboultaif for five minutes, please.

May 10th, 2021 / 12:05 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses. We have four companies in front of us. It seems they're mostly net exporters.

I believe that, if you can sell your product domestically, you should be able to sell it internationally, and it takes both the private sector and the government to be able to set the competitive benchmark, as Mr. Subramaniam has mentioned.

I'm interested in knowing what the government can do to help on a scale-up, first of all. On start-ups we could probably do okay, but a scale-up is a different game altogether.

Second, it is common knowledge that to become competitive, on the government side, you need less red tape. You need a better taxation policy. You need better programs in order to be able to upgrade when you need it for your equipment and your ability, so, Mr. Subramaniam, what are we lacking in order to be able to set the competitive benchmark?

12:05 p.m.

Chief of Strategic Growth, Opus One Solutions

Hari Suthan Subramaniam

First would be a competitive benchmark from government, policy to policy. I know it's ever-evolving, but especially if we look at post-COVID, apart from stimulus, what are each of the countries doing to help their companies in the sector grow? That's one benchmark.

The second benchmark is around financing. I know there's a rebirth of the Canadian Commercial Corporation, which looks at how to get our companies very close to governments that are spending. That should be benchmarked in terms of federal government instruments, whether it be through their own bank, like EDC-BDC, or leveraged companies. How do we benchmark that against other competitors, the export development bank type of competitors?

I'm looking at both of them.

The third thing that is really hard to benchmark, which you're alluding to, is around our own culture of innovation as a nation. We are, if I may say so, a nation of cruise control. We like what we have, so why disturb it when things are going so well? Unfortunately, with the global energy transition, some of us have been in this sector for a couple of decades waiting for what we have seen happen today. I'll be honest. It's actually moving at a much faster pace than I thought, whether it be big companies or small companies, but also with the amount of capital that is being unleashed in terms of energy transition and decarbonization.

Therefore, this is the question for a nation like Canada and members of Parliament like yourselves: If the wave is already here, how do we ensure that we build the right surfboard for our companies and our people and then actually ride that wave all the way through? It's not going to be a blip. We think it's going to be at least the next 25 years.

Competitive benchmarks are one thing. Working together is another thing. What I would say to you as members of Parliament is that Germany has employed this through multiple government transitions. All the parties have always agreed on what the core thing is for economic development and have stuck to it. That would be one of my asks. On the key fundamentals, if it is going to be greenhouse gases and climate change, can we all align to ensure that there's a consistent wave forward so that we can crest this from a company perspective, but also a people perspective?

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Thank you.

In 2016, I asked a question at the finance committee about how competitive we are in Canada compared with Germany and compared with the United States, and the numbers are horrible. The numbers are scary. We are down on a scale of 25% to 30%. That is very concerning, because you touched on the culture. I was an exporter myself before politics and I know that you need a cocktail of it all in order to be able to provide a competitive environment for our businesses.

As I said, again, if you can't sell it locally, you're going to have a hard time selling it internationally. That's where, if we're not competitive locally, we can open the door for competition from outside to come and sell products here. In the area of the green revolution and everything going toward that, I'm concerned and I'd like to hear from you one more time what the government role is going to be in order to be able to enhance that.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

I'm sorry. That was a long question, so we'll have to get a brief answer.

12:10 p.m.

Chief of Strategic Growth, Opus One Solutions

Hari Suthan Subramaniam

A strategic plan that looks at a time frame of two to three years is needed if our internal goal is to create jobs within the sectors, and then it's literally asking the sector what it needs to succeed and ensuring we do it.

Thank you.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Thank you.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

We'll go on to Mr. Sarai, for five minutes, please.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, witnesses.

I'll first go to Ballard Power, which is local here in British Columbia and which I've seen grow and go through challenging times but still be there and be resilient.

Could you expand on what role your industry, the fuel-cell industry, can play in the green recovery that this government wants, going forward?

12:10 p.m.

Vice-President Marketing , Ballard Power Systems Inc.

Nicolas Pocard

Yes. Thank you very much for your question.

We have the objective to be carbon-neutral by 2050. If you look at what the key contributors are to emissions today, the transportation sector, for example, represents close to 25% of emissions here in Canada, and in some countries, it's even higher. When you look at how we're going to get there, when you look at decarbonization, heavy-duty mobility like buses, trucks, rail and trains, hydrogen fuel cells really bring a unique solution.

In Canada, we have the opportunity to really be able to develop and produce this technology. This is an economic opportunity. At Ballard, we have been growing really quickly in the last couple of years. When I joined the company back in 2012, we were only 300 employees; now we are more than 900. The majority of those jobs, which are based in British Columbia, have grown in the past 12 to 18 months. At the moment, we still have 50 positions open. In phasing in the recovery on green and sustainable technology to enable decarbonization and meet our objective of 2050, that will also help in the development of the Canadian economy.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

In budget 2021 there has been $1 billion announced over five years to help draw private sector investment for Canadian clean-tech projects.

Do you think the government could do more to work with industry to attract more private sector in the clean-tech sector?

12:10 p.m.

Vice-President Marketing , Ballard Power Systems Inc.

Nicolas Pocard

I think so, and then there also needs to be some clear.... We don't really have any domestic market for us today so it is all exports. I think seeing the development of a domestic market will help and this is done by really helping the deployment of zero-emission fuel cell vehicles, especially for buses and trucks.

We see some money coming. There are some really good announcements that have been done by Infrastructure Canada in order to deploy zero-emission buses on the transit side, so I think we are seeing on the transit side really good progress, which will lead to the deployment of zero-emission and fuel cell buses across Canada.

I think on the truck side there is more to be done. How are we going to help the truck industry to green up? How are we going to help to put more zero-emission trucks on the road in Canada, using Canadian technology? This can be done by zero-emission mandates in some cases, or at least emission reductions on the truck sector like we have in Europe, as we have in California and as we have in China.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Do you think the new reduction in corporate taxes that are proposed for clean-tech sectors will help foster or grow these industries, particularly in the truck industry, something that is actually pretty important to my constituents and I, with Surrey being a big logistical hub.

How can the government help spawn or spur on more growth in this clean-tech sector for heavy equipment like trucks?

12:10 p.m.

Vice-President Marketing , Ballard Power Systems Inc.

Nicolas Pocard

Absolutely. Any incentive that will force users or fleet operators, the big distribution centres, to switch to cleaner trucks is very important. They have some examples in California. There are examples in other parts of the world where incentives, as well as a measure of some regulations, will help that transition and really incentivize large fleet operators to look at adding penalties to diesel trucks.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Thank you.

Mr. Subramanian, you have said that EDC and BDC have helped foster growth in clean tech, and scaling up is a big challenge.

Can you give us some suggestions? How have EDC and BDC helped, and how can they help further to scale up Canadian businesses in the context of—

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Could we have a brief answer, sir?

12:15 p.m.

Chief of Strategic Growth, Opus One Solutions

Hari Suthan Subramaniam

Yes, I think it's twofold. One would be that I think there is extra financing available, but ultimately they are a bank. I think, moving forward, what would be a great discourse is the flexibility that BDC and EDC should offer that other traditional commercial banks wouldn't. I think that's one way.

Second is venture capital. They are both still looking at a small start-up style seed funding. I think there is a little bit of hesitation in terms of betting on, let's say, Canadian companies that are x percentage and above, so I think they should be bold. They should bet on our companies that are going to hit $100 million.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

We will move on to Monsieur Savard-Tremblay, for two and a half minutes, please.

12:15 p.m.

Bloc

Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We were talking earlier about Canadian expertise compared to American expertise.

I would like more time to define the American expertise, if you could respond.

How do American companies fill a niche that differs from ours?

Also, given the specific nature of Quebec, how is our niche authentic compared to theirs?

12:15 p.m.

Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.

Travis Allan

Just to confirm, was that for me?