International Trade Committee on May 28th, 2021

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I don't know. I'm going to end with a comment.

I think it's morally unconscionable that we're still in this position on this particular case. If it's a big deal, then we should waive it. If it's not a big deal, then we should waive it and we should allow other countries to pursue it. At this point, quite frankly, it's embarrassing that we as a country are at this point, given the risks that are in place here globally and the fact that mutant variants can come back and essentially render the work to date useless.

I'm just going to say on the record here at this committee that I think we have a moral imperative and a duty to get out of the way and to allow any and all opportunities for increased global production. I would hate to be involved in a government that would support a vaccine apartheid in this regard.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

We go now to Mr. Lobb for the remaining four minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'd like to welcome all our guests.

I would just like to let all the committee know that Ambassador de Boer is one of Huron county's proudest citizens. He grew up down the road from where I live. We actually have had three ambassadors from Huron country, so we're well represented and very proud. I know that Mr. Green was not disparaging Mr. de Boer or any of our other guests here today.

My question is pretty simple. It's in regard to the fact that it appears that all the major pharmaceutical companies at this point in time have accumulated all the raw materials that go into these vaccines. Whether it's the vials, the bags, or the bacteria, they have everything. That being the case, even if TRIPS is approved or whatever happens, is there even a chance that there's going to be any material to produce vaccines in another country or another part of the world?

[H.E. Stephen de Boer]

Having been given that great introduction, I'm not sure that I am able to answer that question.

I would say, however, that one of the reasons for the Ottawa Group proposal is to ensure that those types of things, hopefully, will not happen and that through trade facilitation, through the relaxation of customs, custom duties, tariffs and export restrictions, these goods will flow much more easily.

I don't know whether any of my colleagues who are here can speak more to that particular issue.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

The last question I have for you has to do with the meeting of your councils on June 8 and 9, I believe. I am wondering if you can briefly enlighten us as to what you think will happen there, or what might happen, and go from there.

[H.E. Stephen de Boer]

It's hard to say. The first meeting will be on Monday. We'll have a much better sense of where members are. We'll have a much better sense of how the proponents wish to move forward and to have others engage on their proposal.

Typically what would happen is that a report would go to the General Council and that would either be the waiver itself or a report that says we need to do more work. Given the time, I would imagine that we will be going to the General Council, which is the overall governing body of the WTO, to say we need more time to discuss this issue. This is a complicated issue for the membership.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Is there any more time, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 57 seconds.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Ms. Gray, would you like to take the rest of the time, then?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Be very quick then. I want one more member to try to get in for the remaining minute. Now it's down to 47 seconds.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be really quick. I'll go back to the ambassador.

You said there were questions that were answered, but they were more historical. Do you anticipate receiving other answers that actually specifically address your questions, and, if so, would you be able to table with the committee what your questions were and any additional answers to them you receive?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Give a brief answer, Ambassador.

[H.E. Stephen de Boer]

I don't think we're anticipating further questions. We'll put questions on the floor on the 31st.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Mr. Sarai for the remaining two minutes.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I didn't think I had that time, but I'll be quick.

I'm going to ask if his excellency can advise us on what the next steps and timelines are in order either to make a decision on this TRIPS waiver or to help those countries that are struggling in this regard.

What would you see as the next step for Canada to assist in getting the COVAX initiative further ahead, as it's been kind of stumbling, or the TRIPS initiative to fruition?

[H.E. Stephen de Boer]

It's hard to say. I can't look into a crystal ball, but I would note that on the narrow issue of intellectual property, typically these matters are supposed to have 90 days, and then if it's not resolved, the issue is over, but we continue to extend that to allow this conversation to carry forward.

I also want to be very clear that the intellectual property aspect of vaccine production and addressing COVID-19 is only one narrow part, a very important but narrow part, of the WTO work. We would see this happening in a number of tracks, including on trade facilitation and on the removal of export restrictions. We would also see it moving in tracks that are outside of the World Trade Organization, at the WHO and COVAX and these other mechanisms, for getting vaccines to other populations.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

If the TRIPS waiver was done, is there enough global capacity to create more vaccines rapidly if they were able to procure the ingredients and get the appropriate licensing and approvals?

[H.E. Stephen de Boer]

That is not at all clear.

The director-general met with manufacturers on April 14. I was part of that meeting. What we heard from manufacturers was a real issue around increasing manufacturing capacity, actually finding the facilities to manufacture the vaccines and then also finding the technical expertise to assist in the production, because it's a difficult and complicated process for developing and manufacturing these vaccines. It's not at all clear how quickly that could be ramped up. It's quite unfortunate, but that seems to be a real problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Ambassador de Boer.

Thank you to all of our witnesses. We apologize for the short amount of time, but you know how the committee works.

Thank you to all of our committee members.

It is Friday. Have a wonderful weekend and enjoy, hopefully, some sunshine.

The meeting is adjourned.