Evidence of meeting #27 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was stores.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Mark Weber  National President, Customs and Immigration Union
Barbara Barrett  Executive Director, Frontier Duty Free Association
Douglas Lovegrove  President, Osella Technologies Inc.
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Dancella Boyi
Kenneth Bieger  Chief Executive Officer, Niagara Falls Bridge Commission

12:10 p.m.

Executive Director, Frontier Duty Free Association

Barbara Barrett

I guess so, yes.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

A technology that can help us make it faster is in fact making it less sticky.

I put it to you again: Do you agree with me that it's unfair to lump the ArriveCAN app itself—the technology that's used to facilitate quick access across the border—with all of these other things like the pandemic, which caused you to lose business, or the measures that were put in place for that?

Ms. Barrett and Mr. Lovegrove, I want your businesses to succeed. We all do. We have to stop playing politics with these things and talk about the real issues here. It was the pandemic, not an app on our phone.

12:10 p.m.

Executive Director, Frontier Duty Free Association

Barbara Barrett

May I respond?

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

You may respond.

12:10 p.m.

Executive Director, Frontier Duty Free Association

Barbara Barrett

I think it's unfair to assume that everyone would be able to deal with this technology and to presume that everyone would have a smart phone to be able to manage it.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

I couldn't agree with you more, which is why I agree with Mr. Lovegrove that making it optional is a good idea. Let's solve the glitches, rather than kill the program.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Maloney.

We'll go on to Mr. Baldinelli for five minutes, please.

September 27th, 2022 / 12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Tony Baldinelli Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Following up on my colleague's comments about making it less sticky, that was the whole point. The government liked to talk about CBSA compliance at about 90% and how it was facilitating travel, but it wasn't doing that. An Order Paper question that was just responded to showed that from January to August 31 of this year, a total of 1.6 million travellers presented themselves at the border for entry into Canada without having submitted ArriveCAN, which just adds to Mr. Bieger's point on land borders. During long weekends, we were having lineups of over two hours, yet traffic was 50% less than 2019 figures. The government didn't even consult its CBSA officers prior to the implementation of this program.

If you're going to create a program, do it right. Consult with the stakeholders. Were the bridge commissions or our American customs officers brought into the conversations about this? Let's do it. Let's do it right.

To Ms. Barrett's point about after the pandemic programming and supports that ended in the spring, fair enough; that's a government decision. However, if you're going to do that, let's get out of the way. Let's remove the disincentives that still stand in the way to their being able to create the wealth they need to survive. These businesses were down 95%. I live in a community that has American visitation that represents over 50% of the revenues generated for my tourism sectors. In 2019 alone, $2.4 billion in tourism receipts was generated. That was devastated. American visitation, although not the largest number, again represents 50% of the revenues that are generated. Why are we putting in place these disincentives to travel? That's what we have to get to.

ArriveCAN was part of the problem there, so when we say to the Frontier Duty Free Association or to our tourism businesses in Niagara that all the programming has ended and you're on your own, well, get out of the way, then. Let them do what it is they do best in my community, and that's welcome people from throughout the world.

That's my concern about the ArriveCAN app. That's why I've been arguing against it from the very day it was put in place.

Now, Mr. Bieger, because of COVID and because of the pandemic, you've seen traffic volumes down 50%. The financial impact on the Niagara Falls Bridge Commission has to be tremendous. What is that impact? I know there were government programs, but your commission is not owned and operated by the federal government, which can support the other four bridges in its jurisdictions in Ontario. Were any supports provided, other than what the government did for everyone else?

12:15 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Niagara Falls Bridge Commission

Kenneth Bieger

No. The only support we received was in the form of some of the workforce labour incentives and grants we received, but in reaching out to the Canadian government and the U.S. government for financial assistance, to be honest with you, we did not really get a good answer as to why we weren't included. We weren't involved in the closing of the bridges to unnecessary traffic. It was our position that both the Canadian and the U.S. governments should have come to our aid when we needed it. We lost probably $30 million in revenue in the first two years.

Traffic, again, is probably at about 55% right now, so we're still not back to where we were before. This is in combination with ArriveCAN and the vaccine requirement. Now that the vaccination requirement will go away as of October 1, we're going to see an improvement in Canadian-bound traffic, but we're still not going to be at 100%.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Tony Baldinelli Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Would the biggest impact be on the Rainbow Bridge? You have your commercial facilities over at Queenston Lewiston. Did you notice the same drops in volume?

12:15 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Niagara Falls Bridge Commission

Kenneth Bieger

The drop in volume was a little greater on the Rainbow Bridge, but it was pretty significant on both, to be honest with you.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Tony Baldinelli Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Madam Lapointe is next.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll be directing my questions to Ms. Barbara Barrett.

I'll share some data with you, and then I'll ask you for your thoughts on some of the data that I share.

Compared to exporting in other countries, Canadian goods exports performed relatively well in the first quarter of 2020. They declined by only 1.2% year over year. China's goods exports, by comparison, were hit hard in that first quarter, falling by 10%.

What factors do you think supported Canada in its ability to better maintain trade levels when compared to other countries, such as China?

12:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Frontier Duty Free Association

Barbara Barrett

I can't answer about trade to China. What I know is that our export business is dependent upon the land border being open and people being able to travel by car over and across the U.S.-Canada border. They have not been able to do that for over two years now in an unencumbered way.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON

If you can't comment on other countries, what about Canada's performance on exports in that first quarter dropping by only 1.2%?

12:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Frontier Duty Free Association

Barbara Barrett

Again, we are dependent upon people being able to go back and forth over the land border. They have not been able to do that in an unencumbered way.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON

The United States saw a change in export levels greater than 3%. Japan saw a decline of 5.5%. Given that the United States did not have an ArriveCAN program in place, why do you believe countries like the United States and Japan saw significantly more dramatic drops in export levels?

12:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Frontier Duty Free Association

Barbara Barrett

Again, I can't answer for Japan or other.... We are solely dependent on the U.S.-Canada border. Our stores are not 50% down because they made bad business decisions or because they have a bad business model; they are in the position of being 50% down because of measures at the border.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON

Do you believe any other contributing factors, excluding ArriveCAN, contributed to the decline in export levels that Canada experienced during the pandemic?

12:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Frontier Duty Free Association

Barbara Barrett

I think tourism habits and traveller habits changed over the period of the pandemic. I think people just weren't used to not going over the border in the way they were before, and the vaccination requirements and the ArriveCAN.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON

How would exports have been impacted if instead of implementing the ArriveCAN app, the government had implemented stricter border restrictions to prevent the spread of COVID?

12:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Frontier Duty Free Association

Barbara Barrett

I'm sorry. Can you ask your question again?

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON

How do you believe exports would have been impacted if instead of implementing ArriveCAN, the government had decided to implement stricter border restrictions?

12:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Frontier Duty Free Association

Barbara Barrett

Do you mean stricter border restrictions but no ArriveCAN?