Evidence of meeting #55 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Rob Stewart  Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Sara Wilshaw  Chief Trade Commissioner, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)) Liberal Judy Sgro

I'm calling the meeting of the Standing Committee on International Trade to order.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. Therefore, members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. With regard to interpretation, for those on Zoom, you have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

All comments should be addressed through the Chair. For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can, and we appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard. Please also note that during the meeting it is not permitted to take pictures in the room or screenshots on Zoom.

Should any technical challenges arise, please advise me, and we will suspend for a few minutes in order to ensure that all members can participate fully.

Today we are meeting with the Minister of International Trade, Export Promotions, Small Business and Economic Development and officials.

We will have two panels. The first will be regarding the committee’s study on Canadian mining firms abroad, and the second panel will be regarding the main estimates for 2023-24.

For the first panel, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, February 2, 2022, the committee is resuming its study of environmental and human rights considerations regarding Canadian mining firms abroad.

We have with us today, on the first panel, the Honourable Mary Ng, Minister of International Trade, Export Promotion, Small Business and Economic Development. From the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, we have Rob Stewart, deputy minister, international trade, and Sara Wilshaw, chief trade commissioner. From the Department of Industry, we have Charles Vincent, assistant deputy minister, small business and marketplace services.

Welcome to you all.

We will start with opening remarks and then proceed with a round of questions.

Minister Ng, I invite you to take the floor for an opening statement of up to 10 minutes. You are doing only one opening statement for both panels, so we will give you the floor for up to 10 minutes, please.

11 a.m.

Markham—Thornhill Ontario

Liberal

Mary Ng LiberalMinister of International Trade

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

It was my intention to be there in person but thought best to not be coughing or sneezing all over my colleagues. Here I am virtually speaking to you.

Good morning to you, the vice-chairs and all members of the committee.

Let me begin by acknowledging that I am speaking to you from the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people. For those of us who are settlers or immigrants to Canada, it's important to remember that indigenous peoples have always been here and that we all have a role to play in reconciliation.

I want to thank the Standing Committee on International Trade for inviting me to speak to you on the important work that you do. I'm always very happy to assist you with your work and to provide today an update to you and to Canadians on the work that our government has been doing on international trade.

When I appeared before this committee five months ago, I said it was a pivotal time for our economy, for Canadians and for Canada's approach to trade. That remains true today.

As we continue to recover from the pandemic and build our economic resilience, how we trade, with whom we trade and what we trade matters more than ever. Securing, strengthening and diversifying our supply chains matter more than ever. Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine has reminded us all that we cannot take our rules-based trading system for granted. The importance of Canada being a world leader in championing progressive, sustainable and inclusive trade matters more than ever. As Minister of International Trade, Export Promotion, Small Business and Economic Development, this is where my work is focused.

First, we need to deepen Canada's trade and investment relationships with partners around the world in order to continue to open new markets to Canadian businesses and exporters.

Second, we must support Canadian businesses to expand and grow beyond Canada, contributing to our economic growth and creating good middle-class jobs from coast to coast to coast.

I'm pleased to share that we are making progress toward our trade and investment targets. We continue to build and safeguard an open and inclusive rules-based global trading system, and we're supporting Canadian exporters and innovators so they can be successful in scaling up their operations into those international markets.

We're seeing this work through the numbers. Trade with our closest trading partner, the United States, surpassed a trillion dollars last year. As many of you, if not all of you, heard from the President just a couple of days ago, this is $2.5 billion of trade a day that goes between Canada and the United States.

Since our government signed CETA with the European Union in 2016, our trade has increased by almost 53% from pre-CETA levels, and with the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, our trade has grown more than 10% since the inception of that agreement.

Prime Minister Trudeau welcomed President Biden to Ottawa for a very productive two-day discussion last week. The United States and Canada have a long-standing trading relationship. The United States is our ally, and the President reaffirmed the closeness of this relationship.

We're working together towards a shared vision for a more competitive, inclusive and greener North America. Together, we'll build our economic resilience. Together, we're ensuring that trade benefits everyone, including our workers, our small and medium-sized businesses, and those who have traditionally been under-represented in our economies. Together, we're confronting the challenges of climate change.

You heard the President say that, by working together, we will build the green economy. There are enormous opportunities for Canada and the United States to work even more closely together, creating good-paying jobs on both sides of the border. Throughout history, Canada and the U.S. have taken on big challenges, and we are doing that again.

Canada and the U.S. are launching an energy transformation task force to accelerate our work together over the next year across the spectrum of the clean economy. We'll focus on promoting trade in clean goods, including green clean steel and aluminum, and we'll continue to collaborate on renewable energy, electric vehicle supply chains and the critical minerals value chains. That means good opportunities in those value chains for Canadian businesses, including small and medium-sized businesses, that will in turn create good opportunities for people to thrive and have great careers.

Semiconductors are enabling advances in clean energy, communication, computing and more. Canada has a vital role to play in the North American semiconductor ecosystem.

Because of the close partnership between Canada and the U.S., last year the U.S. announced a $250-million U.S. investment in the Defense Production Act for Canadian and U.S. companies to mine and process critical minerals for electric vehicles and stationary storage batteries. Just a couple of days ago on this visit, the United States announced an additional $50 million U.S. in the Defense Production Act to fund U.S. and Canadian companies for advanced packaging for semiconductors and printed circuit boards.

Why is this good? It's good because for Canadian companies to work alongside American companies in this important value chain in critical sectors in this green economy will mean growth for our Canadian businesses, including our small and medium-sized businesses.

With a relationship as large as the one we have with the United States, of course, we have issues that we are going to have to work on together, like softwood lumber. Now in the fifth round of the dispute, unfair U.S. duties are causing harm to the Canadian industry and the communities that rely on it, as well as to U.S. consumers. I raised directly with the President of the United States the need for a negotiated solution.

Now more than ever, it's critical that we grow our trade and strengthen our supply chains with our partners who are our friends. This is not just our CUSMA partners, but also our partners in the Indo-Pacific. The Indo-Pacific region is one of the fasting-growing regions in the world. By 2030, it's going to be home to two-thirds of the global middle class. By 2040, the region will account for more than half of the global economy. It will represent significant opportunities for years to come.

In the last year, I have visited the Indo-Pacific 13 times, most recently last month, when I brought over 170 companies to Singapore on a team Canada trade mission. While we establish new partnerships and opportunities across the Pacific, we're also strengthening our relationships on the other coast—the Atlantic. You heard me say earlier that our trading relationship with the European Union has grown by nearly 53%. This is really good for business, but the line that I would draw your attention to is the growth in trade in environmental goods and services, which have consistently seen growth. This really speaks to the importance of growing our green economy, not only with the United States but with our partners in the European Union as well.

Just two weeks ago, while I was on the other side of the Atlantic, I led a team trade mission to the United Kingdom with women in tech businesses. There, we saw women entrepreneurs in tech who are leading the way and growing their opportunities in the United Kingdom. Here, of course, we are at the negotiating table, working with the U.K. to further strengthen our trade and investment ties to that long-standing ally.

As we negotiate new agreements and modernize existing ones, Canada will lead with our values when it comes to our work around the world, and we expect companies around the world to do the same.

This will take me to Canada's mining industry, which is known for strong, sustainable and responsible mining. Canada is one of the most sought-after partners by countries around the world, including in the global south. Like many industries that recognize the shift to a more responsible, sustainable and inclusive way of doing business, it's critical to building a competitive 21st-century Canadian mining industry, and they are leading the way in adapting to these challenges.

They are working from a strong foundation. I want to give a shout-out to the Canadian Mining Association for initiatives like “Towards Sustainable Mining”, which is designed to ensure responsible and sustainable operations for Canadian mining companies around the world. Through their leadership, they have now worked with 12 other countries that will also adopt “Towards Sustainable Mining,” so that as a global community we are doing this together.

It's a commitment for these companies here in Canada that will require mine sites to report on performance indicators related to biodiversity, climate change, indigenous and community relationships, health and safety, and more. It's the first standard to require independent external verifications. It aims to modernize and adapt to address new realities, challenges and priorities like transparency and action on forced labour, and advancing equity, diversity and inclusion in the mining workforce.

Let me share a wonderful example of a company that I met most recently in Mexico: Canada's Torex Gold. It's the second-largest gold producer operating in Mexico. They have received some of the highest scores for mining standards and community engagement, and they have an almost 50% female leadership. Leading with Canadian values front and centre, it works.

Mining is also seeing an expanded interest and prioritization as businesses innovate and develop green solutions that will accelerate the transition to net zero. For these to become a reality, critical minerals are going to be key building blocks for the green and digital economy of the future.

Here in Canada, we're blessed with an abundant supply. They're essential to lowering emissions. They're key to electric vehicles and advanced batteries for security and tech manufacturing and for semiconductors. In short, they're the basic elements of everyday life.

That's why our government developed a critical minerals list and a critical minerals strategy, backed by $4 billion, for the 31 minerals considered essential for the success of Canada as a global mining leader.

Canada is not only producing these minerals, but we are setting our country up to be the global leader and to be the supplier of choice. We don't want to just produce them here. We want to build out the entire value chain here at home and grow our businesses—particularly our small and medium-sized businesses—every step of the way. It means doing the processing here in Canada, doing the refining here in Canada and, further downstream, doing the advance component manufacturing all here in Canada.

I know all of us here today are thinking about what the future looks like. For Canada, our future is one where the mining and mineral processing industries can grow and thrive in a responsible, sustainable, inclusive and environmentally friendly way. It's a future where we are united in our goals, with Canada meeting the United Nations sustainable development goals and net-zero emissions by 2050. It's a future that is healthier for generations to come, more accessible for all and keeps us even more connected.

I know that future isn't far off, especially when Canada works with the mining industry, our provincial and territorial partners, and indigenous partners in pursuit of making this reality. Be it here at home or abroad, we will continue to ensure that good jobs, fair agreements and progressive approaches that benefit Canadians and our economy will be the work that we're focused on doing.

I look forward to talking about the progress that we've made, and I'm happy to take questions, Madam Chair.

I apologize for those brief interludes of coughing and sneezing.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Minister.

As much as we were looking to have you in person, we do appreciate the fact that you decided to keep the germs in your office and talk to us through Zoom so the rest of us don't end up with another cold.

Mr. Seeback, you have six minutes, please.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, you talked about trade with the United States. You also talked about—and this is what you just said—wanting to lead with our values and expecting companies around the world to also do so.

Are you aware that in USMCA, or CUSMA, Canada's not supposed to allow for the importation of goods made with, or suspected to be made with, slave labour?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I understand our obligations fully in CUSMA.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Last time you were here at committee, I asked you a series of questions. In one of those questions, I asked you whether or not the Government of Canada had seized any goods suspected of being made with forced labour from the Xinjiang region of China and you said, “I believe that there have been”, which is interesting because I did an Order Paper question, and in that Order Paper question it came back that absolutely no goods were seized that were made, or suspected to have been made, with forced labour.

Were you misinformed when you gave that information to the committee or did you misspeak?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

To the member, I provided what I understood to be the facts at that meeting.

Let me say this: We take our obligations, particularly our trade agreements, very seriously. I know there has been much work that has been done by this committee, but also other committees, looking at this very issue. Ensuring that there is no forced labour in our supply chains is something that we are absolutely committed to doing. We've updated our responsible business conduct requirements for companies with respect to goods from the Xinjiang region. We have a declaration that is very specific for companies operating in that region that the trade commissioner service and EDC—

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Minister, you haven't actually seized any goods. Is that right? Are you disagreeing with the response from the Order Paper question?

No goods have been seized at the Canadian border. Is that correct or incorrect?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I'm going to have my officials answer that so we can be very correct.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Are you disputing the accuracy of your government's response to an Order Paper question, Minister?

Is that really the position you're taking now, to try to get a government official to answer it? I have the written response.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

No, I'm simply asking my officials to provide facts.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Mr. Seeback, with all due respect, the minister has asked her officials to respond in order to ensure complete accuracy.

Can whichever one of the officials who would like to answer that question, please answer it?

11:15 a.m.

Rob Stewart Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Thank you.

Thank you for the question.

To the best of my knowledge, we seized one shipment but that was released, so it is no longer seized and—

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

That would be zero.

March 27th, 2023 / 11:15 a.m.

Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Rob Stewart

That would be zero at the end of that process.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

That's right. Thank you.

Minister, are you aware that the United States has put together a list of companies that they know or suspect have been engaged in using forced labour in their supply chains? Are you aware of the existence of this list?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I am aware that Canada, the United States and Mexico are meeting the obligations of our trade treaty in the USMCA, in CUSMA and in T-MEC. That is a commitment that our government has made and we'll deliver on.

Look, the work that we are doing here is to help businesses develop a greater capacity to understand the vulnerabilities that they may have in their supply chains. We are doing that work diligently with Canadian companies so that they can be more resilient, so that they will comply with what is required of them through our treaties. That work is being done by our department, and we're going to keep doing this work, because ensuring resilient supply chains and making sure that there is no forced labour in our supply chains is the absolute commitment. We will comply with our trade agreements.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Okay, but you haven't complied. Isn't that right? Because the United States, and this is an article—

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Mr. Seeback, please direct the questions through the chair.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Yes, Madam Chair.

Through you, Madam Chair, with all due respect, Minister, by October 1 of 2022, the United States had 2,600 seizures valued at over $1.3 billion of goods that were suspected to be made with forced labour. Over the same period of time—in fact, up to a few weeks ago when I got my Order Paper question—Canada has seized zero. How can you say that's complying?

The United States has $1.3 billion, and Canada has zero. Clearly, you are not complying.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

We take compliance with our international treaty extremely seriously. With respect to goods in the Xinjiang region, there is a process, a declaration, that all companies that operate in the region must adhere to with the trade commissioner service and Export Development Canada. Companies are required to do that in order have access to the Government of Canada's services.

We are also working to make sure that companies understand the risk of any forced labour in their supply chain, so that they can be more resilient and they will absolutely, always, be in compliance. We take compliance with our trade agreements extremely seriously.

On the Canadian side—just as the Americans and the Mexicans are doing—we're working collaboratively to make sure that the trade agreement between the three countries is working.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Minister, it's not working. You've seized absolutely no goods. The U.S. has seized 1.3 billion dollars' worth of goods.

I have the list of companies that the United States has banned. I'm happy to give it to the minister, so she can copy and paste it and they can start enforcing it like the United States.

Would the minister like me to hand her a copy of this document so she can get the government to do the work?

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Seeback. I'm sorry, but your time is up.

We'll go to Mr. Virani, please, for six minutes.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Minister, thank you for joining us. I'm sorry for the illness that's befallen you. I hope you get better soon.

Thank you to the officials for being here.

Minister, I'm going to start with mining. I appreciate that you're here on the estimates and on mining.

I thought it was quite telling, with respect to the visit of President Biden last week, that his speech in the House of Commons and also the joint statement that was issued by the Prime Minister and President Biden referenced mining in particular. We heard this in the context of his speech in the Commons when he talked about the critical minerals sector in particular. I'm reading from some of that joint communiqué. It specifically says:

Canada and the United States will work together to create a strong, environmentally responsible, and resilient North American critical minerals supply chain...committed to identifying, securing, and developing critical minerals extraction, processing, manufacturing, and recycling opportunities in both countries to diversify supply chains....

I know that you've been working extensively on this issue with your counterpart trade representative, Ms. Tai. Could you elaborate on the work you've been doing and the significance of this kind of statement coming from the U.S. President?

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Thank you very much.

It's very significant. Both countries are committed to fighting climate change. Both countries are committed to an economy where the economy and the environment can go hand in hand. We saw one of the deliverables that came out of this meeting, with an additional $50 million U.S. committed to essentially building out the supply chain. That includes U.S. dollars funding both U.S. and Canadian companies. It's $50 million this time, and there's the number I said a little earlier of $250 million last year. This is incredibly significant.

We on our side are, of course, going to support that through the strategic innovation fund that makes sure that Canadian companies in this important supply chain are included as part of this value chain with our largest trading partner. That means creating jobs. That means creating jobs in the clean economy. It's creating a task force over the next year that's going to focus on the clean economy. Those jobs, entrepreneurs and businesses that are in Canada through this supply chain are very important.

At the end of the day, this is about fighting climate change. It's about Canadian innovations and American innovations. This is about making the right investments so that we grow the green economy. We believe that we should be able to do that together.