International Trade Committee on Feb. 12th, 2026

[Jacob Mantle, Conservative, York—Durham, ON]

I'd like to speak on it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Go ahead.

[Jacob Mantle, Conservative, York—Durham, ON]

Actually, I just have a question for the panel.

You've seen this amendment and other amendments from my Bloc colleague on a similar issue. Do you have any comments on the substance of this in terms of what Canada is or isn't doing with respect to environmental concerns, especially, palm deforestation in Indonesia, which is a well-documented concern worldwide?

[Aaron Fowler, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, International Trade Branch and Chief Trade Negotiator, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

I think there are two or three elements that are relevant to the amendment that's been proposed. The first is the substantive provisions that are contained within the agreement with respect to the treatment of palm oil. Then there are the mechanisms that exist already both within the agreement and outside of the agreement to manage concerns of the nature that I think this amendment is intended to address.

The agreement does not change the market access situation for Indonesian palm oil into the Canadian market. Canada has a 6% most-favoured-nation tariff rate on imports of crude palm oil. We are not reducing that tariff at all as a result of this agreement. That tariff line is excluded.

Canada does not apply an MFN tariff on imports of refined palm oil from any source. That will not change as a result of this agreement. Even with that MFN zero rate on refined palm, I think it's important to note that in 2024, Canada imported only about 55 million dollars' worth of palm oil from Indonesia. That accounts for less than one-quarter of 1% of Indonesia's global exports of palm oil. We are a relatively small and marginal importer.

The CEPA does nevertheless include strong mechanisms to address trade-related environmental and labour matters that may arise between Canada and Indonesia, including any that could be potentially related to bilateral trade in palm oil. The agreement's subcommittee on environment and the agreement's labour council allow Canada and Indonesia to advance the agreement's commitments on matters such as sustainable agriculture, sustainable forest management and the elimination of forced labour and child labour.

The agreement contains robust consultation mechanisms to resolve any environmental or labour matters that may arise. If the parties continue to have divergences in position, there is a dispute settlement mechanism that would enforce the parties' commitments in this respect.

We also have strong mechanisms outside of the CEPA that help to deal with any sorts of issues of this nature that would arise linked to the importation of palm oil. I'd be happy to elaborate on what some of those are, if it would be useful to the committee.

[Jacob Mantle, Conservative, York—Durham, ON]

Thank you. That's sufficient at this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Is there further discussion?

Mr. Savard-Tremblay.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I believe that someone is here from the Canada Border Services Agency. Could this person remind us how many shipments Canada has seized in recent years because of human rights violations?

[Meda-Cristina Horacsek, Executive Director, Commercial and Trade Policy, Canada Border Services Agency]

I don't have this information, but I'll find it and send it to you.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

It's too bad. This could have shown us just how much the model in question doesn't work. We've already carried out studies on this. We have evidence that it doesn't work. We're told that only a little over $50 million worth of palm oil is involved and that we have mechanisms, agreements and deals in place. In short, everything's fine and dandy. Yet when we took a broader look at the method for screening goods produced by forced labour, we heard that this type of screening is virtually non‑existent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Go ahead, Mr. Mantle.

[Jacob Mantle, Conservative, York—Durham, ON]

Sorry, I'm taking advantage of the officials' being here.

My Bloc colleague's question reminded me of another issue on information and data forthcoming from the CBSA. The committee will recall that other members of the CBSA were here and we had asked about goods that were detained because they were produced in whole or in part by forced labour. The written response to the committee was that they were sorry but they can't give that information to us.

I'm wondering if you would comment on why the CBSA feels it's unable to provide the committee with details on goods that arguably, or at least by the CBSA's own admission, may violate Canadian law. Why can't that information be provided to the committee?

[Meda-Cristina Horacsek]

I am not able to provide it immediately, but I will search for it and provide it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Excellent.

[Jacob Mantle, Conservative, York—Durham, ON]

I'm just going to say that I've been down this road before, where we get a response from the CBSA with some reference to either its privacy concerns or a piece of the Customs Act that they can rely on. I'll just say that if the information is not forthcoming, more production orders will be moved by me at this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Is there any further discussion on BQ-1?

(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Next is BQ-2.

Monsieur Savard-Tremblay, would you like to speak to BQ-2, please?

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I prepared an amendment that even you will no doubt find acceptable.

This time, the amendment doesn't call for the appointment of a group of experts, but simply for the minister to conduct an annual follow‑up to ensure that none of these types of violations are taking place. It's all about transparency.

I already moved somewhat similar amendments in the case of the agreement with Ukraine. As we'll see, a number of these amendments are along the same lines. At the time, I had the approval of our friends in the Liberal Party of Canada. I hope that I can get it this time too. It's just a requirement for transparency and monitoring. If everything is fine and dandy, as the senior officials told us, we'll be able to receive confirmation each year without any issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

It's an interesting amendment. I'm going to rule that it's admissible.

Is there any discussion or debate on this before we call a vote on BQ-2?

Mr. Naqvi.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

I was going to go to Mr. Fowler, perhaps, to again get his thoughts on this particular recommendation.

I noted that it relates to the palm oil industry. I'm assuming your rationale will be pretty close to what you outlined in your previous response in terms of the impact of that particular sector, that industry, on Canada and within the Canadian market.

[Aaron Fowler]

Yes, I can confirm that the information that I think is relevant to consideration of this amendment is the same as the information that I read into the record for the last proposed amendment.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Monsieur Savard-Tremblay.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I'm simply saying that, if all goes well, we have nothing to fear from an annual report that should reassure us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Could you repeat that, please? We're having a bit of a problem with the translation here today.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I'm simply pointing out that, if all goes well, as explained to us, we have absolutely nothing to lose by having the minister provide an annual report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I now call for a vote on BQ-2.

(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Now we have proposed amendment BQ-3.

Would you like to speak to it?