Justice Committee on April 13th, 2010

[Insp Don Perron]

As you know, we have the Organized Crime Enforcement Bureau. We carry out intelligence-led policing. Obviously that information would be submitted to our intelligence analysis cycle, and obviously, if the information were paramount and linked to some of our priorities, we would act on it. We would also hope the person receiving the information would have done what we call the front-end work to capture all the information they can.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

So the member of the public might think that nothing is happening, but indeed something may be happening? In other words, the police are adding it to their intelligence package so that down the road they have additional information to go about doing their job, like getting a search warrant when the investigation is at that point.

[Insp Don Perron]

That is correct.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

Do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Enough for a very short question.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

No, that's fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

All right. We'll move on to the second round.

Ms. Mendes, do you want to go first?

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

You have five minutes.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Good morning to all.

I'm very interested in the witness program.

Chief Superintendent, how long does the program support a witness, on average, that is, for how many years until that person can become self-sufficient or reintegrate into a new life?

[C/Supt Thomas Bucher]

Again, that depends on each case. When somebody enters the program, they're entered into the program for an extended period of time. As an organization, we encourage protectees to become self-sufficient as quickly as possible. We do a number of things to encourage that. We assist them by providing them with training, and there is the entire relocation package. It really depends on the individual case.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Is there any way they could end up in the welfare systems of the different provinces?

[C/Supt Thomas Bucher]

I believe they could, yes.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

From what I understand, there's no time limit to the kind of support you offer them.

[C/Supt Thomas Bucher]

Well, we initially offer bolstered support, and there's a maintenance system in place. Generally, the term is for a six-month period, and the expectation is that the protectee will adjust their life and take steps that are necessary to become self-sufficient.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

So after six months do you decide to withdraw support, or can you offer support for longer periods of time?

[C/Supt Thomas Bucher]

We don't withdraw. We would make a re-evaluation after the initial six-month period. Depending on the circumstances, there could be an arrangement made to continue that maintenance for an extended period of time.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Or would you refer them to provincial welfare programs?

[C/Supt Thomas Bucher]

We would never make that referral.

As I indicated, the goal is for them to become self-sufficient, and we provide some guidance for them to become self-sufficient.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

I'm asking the question because many of these people, generally speaking, are going to face huge upheaval, to begin with. The fear of changing their lives, after having given information to the police, is obviously going to affect them. You do offer emotional support and counselling support, from what I see, but some of them may not be able to integrate into a job in a reasonable—

[C/Supt Thomas Bucher]

That would be part of the initial assessment. Whenever we're looking at having somebody enter the program—which of course is a voluntary program—we initially make an assessment and always try to provide that relocated person with a similar type of lifestyle to what they had in their previous location. This would include the type of training required to give that person the opportunity to have similar employment, and we would look at any types of medical issues that may come up.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

But those could be identifiers, too.

[C/Supt Thomas Bucher]

Yes.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

And they could eventually lead to that person being found by whomever they've snitched on. A diabetic, for example, is always going to be a very specific patient in whatever health system he or she is dependent on. But you obviously can't change anything there.

I'm asking these questions because I don't think the program can or should support someone for 30 or 40 years, or for however long is needed. Do you also have a system where you evaluate if there's no longer a risk to that person?

[C/Supt Thomas Bucher]

Risk or—