Mr. Murphy, I'll start there. The estimates from our department would be that, likely, if you look at the entire range of reforms to the law that would require increased incarceration, a province the size of New Brunswick is looking at about $10 million to $15 million annually in increased costs.
As I said, we don't really have a dollar to spend where the evidence doesn't direct us. One thing I like about programs such as Youth Options, for instance, is that we track those kids. If they're reoffending, if they're committing more crimes, if they're not getting their GED, then we don't support funding them. If Youth Options should be held to an evidence-based approach, I think so too should governments.
That $15 million would, by and large, come out of some of the extras in the school system and in the range of services we have at social services to families and kids at risk. It would mean fewer TAs to help when a child struggles in literacy. It would mean fewer behaviour interventionists in our schools. It would mean fewer programs that train staff in correctional facilities or schools to spot issues of mental health or substance abuse. I would submit that if we are going to hold programs like Youth Options to an evidence-based approach where they have to show it's working, it seems to me that at some point the Government of Canada should also be held to an evidence-based approach where we actually are shown how this approach reduces crime.