Evidence of meeting #21 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was public.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Simon Fournel-Laberge  As an Individual
Gaylene Schellenberg  Lawyer, Legislation and Law Reform, Canadian Bar Association
Scott Bergman  Section Member, National Criminal Justice Section, Canadian Bar Association
William Trudell  Chair, Canadian Council of Criminal Defence Lawyers
Julie McAuley  Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
Martha Mackinnon  Executive Director, Justice for Children and Youth
Agnes Samler  President, Defence for Children International-Canada
Les Horne  Executive Director, Defence for Children International-Canada
Mia Dauvergne  Senior Analyst, Policing Services Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
Craig Grimes  Chief/Advisor, Courts Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
Irwin Elman  Provincial Advocate, Office of the Provincial Advocate for Children and Youth (Ontario)
Lee Tustin  Advocate for Children and Youth, Office of the Provincial Advocate for Children and Youth (Ontario)

12:55 p.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

Could we get the rate by provinces?

12:55 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Policing Services Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Mia Dauvergne

Absolutely.

12:55 p.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

You don't have that here.

I am back to a basic question that we are wondering about. I appreciate that you have given us all these statistics. However, the statistics on crimes against young people do not really help us to deal with youth crimes.

I looked at statistics on crime rates—I think that there were starting in the 1970s—and I saw a few things. The Province of Quebec has a very specific way of dealing with young offenders. We have noted that before 1985, Quebec had a higher crime rate than the Canadian average. But since 1985, there has been a distinct difference and this lowering trend continues. If my memory serves me well, the youth crime rate in Quebec has decreased by 57%.

Why don't I see that reflected in the statistics? Where should that be?

12:55 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Policing Services Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Mia Dauvergne

We have that information and could certainly provide it to the committee. I do have the 2008 information in front of me for youth accused by province. I could read it into the transcript if you'd like, or we could provide the information back to you.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Fast

Could you provide that to us?

12:55 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Policing Services Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Mia Dauvergne

Certainly.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Fast

That would be great.

12:55 p.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

But--

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Fast

We'll move on to—

12:55 p.m.

Bloc

Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

This is happening once again, in the name of efficiency.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ed Fast

That was five minutes.

We'll move on to Ms. Leslie.

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

Thank you. It's five minutes tops, so I'll jump into it.

On deck 8, I looked at this and drew a line at 2003, when the YCJA came into effect. So if I look at deck 8 and have my line here, this is telling me, then—I just want to confirm—that incarceration rates of youth are going down post-YCJA. Is that correct? Is that what I'm reading?

12:55 p.m.

Craig Grimes Chief/Advisor, Courts Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

That is correct.

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

Okay. Sorry. It just happened so fast.

12:55 p.m.

Chief/Advisor, Courts Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Craig Grimes

One of the additional caveats I can add is that the dates in here represent completed cases. At the time of the implementation of the YCJA, there would have been cases in the system that were still pending when the YCJA was enacted on April 1, 2003.

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

Perfect. That's good to know. Thank you.

When I look at deck 2, and again, I've drawn the line at 2003, indicating the YCJA, it is telling me that overall, youth crime is going down, whether they are charged or not. Is that what this is saying?

1 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Policing Services Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Mia Dauvergne

Slide 2 represents the rate of youth charged and youth not charged for overall crimes.

1 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

Does “youth not charged” mean every kid who has never had a charge?

1 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Policing Services Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Mia Dauvergne

It means youth who commit crimes who come to the attention of police but are not formally charged by the police.

1 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

Okay, thank you.

Are you able to provide us with data showing youth charged who are sentenced to custody? Do you have that information by race or ethnicity?

1 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Policing Services Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Mia Dauvergne

No, we do not.

1 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

You do not.

Do you have any racialized data that would be useful to us for understanding who these youth are?

1 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Policing Services Program, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Mia Dauvergne

We collect some information on the aboriginal status of persons who come to the attention of police. However, there are many police services that do not provide that information to us. We would have to look at the data quality to determine whether it would be appropriate to release.

1 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

So we just don't have that data?

1 p.m.

Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada

Julie McAuley

We are currently working with police departments across the country, and we did a feasibility in Saskatchewan to look at whether that information could be collected directly at the time of interview. That was discussed at the deputy ministers of justice meeting in January, where there was an agreement that CCJS, our centre, should go back and see how we could effectively collect that information.

In terms of aboriginal data, the best source of data for actually looking at the aboriginal component would be our corrections program.