Evidence of meeting #4 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

No. You can see the mandatory minimums will push more people into the federal system. So you're right, it will be a reduction in that sense, that the people who get increased penalties are more likely to end up in federal institutions. So you're quite correct, it might ease some of the pressure on provincial facilities.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

I don't want to leave the impression that I'm agreeing with that comment, Mr. Minister.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that was the direction you were going.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

My analysis is just the opposite—

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

Oh, I see. That's fair enough.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

—that we're going to see a huge increase in the number of prisoners at the provincial institutions, because of the two years less....

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

We'll have to take some comfort; we're getting the right ones in there, Mr. Comartin.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Again I'll disagree with you on that.

Just one more question with regard to provincial costs. Are you aware of any of the provinces having done an analysis, again just on the drug part of the bill, as to how much it's going to cost them individually?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

I don't know of any specifically. I noticed just recently the Saskatchewan Minister of Corrections indicating it's very difficult to try to predict increased costs and determine what people's behaviour would be. Again, they can speak for themselves, but it's very difficult.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

If a provincial government were going to do that analysis and required information and data from you or Minister Toews's department, would you be willing to give them that information?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

We try to help them in every possible way, Mr. Comartin. As I say with the drug bill, this is the fourth time we've introduced it, and quite frankly I've had discussions with my provincial counterparts going back now almost five years. So they're well aware of the implications, and again I'm very grateful for all the support they have given over the years.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Time is up, Mr. Comartin.

Now, Mr. Goguen.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A question to Minister Nicholson, and where he's concise in his answers, I'll probably pass the baton to my friend, Mr. Seeback.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

I'm concise in my answers?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

I said you're usually concise.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

I just wanted a clarification.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Minister, the opposition parties and the media have stated that this government is going after individuals who are growing six plants in their homes for personal use. Is this the intent of Bill C-10? Is this bill imposing mandatory minimum penalties on the individual who is using drugs recreationally, or the addict who can't wean himself off drugs?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

No. I appreciate our critics want to spin this to give that impression, and you'll hear this from people who don't want us to go after people who are in the business of trafficking, but the bill is very clear, that if you are in the grow-op business and you have between six and 199 plants, you will come within the provisions of this if you are in the business of trafficking. Again, our critics, for whatever reason—I suppose they can explain that themselves—generally forget to mention that, but that is an essential element of the offence.

Again, the whole problem with grow-ops--I hear about this everywhere I go in the country, from law enforcement agencies, from firefighters—is it is a growing health and safety problem, and again I've indicated to them that we are doing our very best to move forward in this direction, to send out the right message that this kind of activity for the purposes of trafficking is not tolerable.

That being said, for the individual who has either unfortunately become addicted or is experimenting, through the national anti-drug strategy we try to get the message out, encourage people not to get involved with this kind of activity, and certainly we want to help those individuals who have unfortunately become addicted.

That being said, this bill is very specific. It goes after those individuals who are in the business of selling and distributing and producing drugs. It takes aim at organized crime because law enforcement agencies tell me these are the people bringing drugs into this country, it's not some individual acting on his own. They tell me it's organized crime that moves drugs in and out of Canada, so this bill is very specific and it targets those individuals.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Thank you, Minister.

I'll pass the baton, with your permission, to Mr. Seeback, to share my time.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Mr. Seeback, a little over two minutes.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON

Great. Thank you.

Minister Nicholson, one of the things I've noticed when I meet and talk with my constituents is that they seem frustrated with the system. They've been frustrated that violent offenders are receiving sentences like house arrest. I'm wondering if you could perhaps expand upon what you said earlier, how this is going to help restore faith in the justice system, and ensure that violent criminal offenders are not receiving conditional sentences and are back in our communities.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

At this point in time we have a fairly long history concerning the use of conditional sentences, very often referred to as house arrests. In fact, my colleague introduced the first bill on behalf of this government to limit house arrest. I always remember the quip he made, in which he said “if somebody sets fire to your house, he shouldn't be qualified to go home to his house after he has been convicted”.

In any case, as you can see by the bill before you, the bill is very specific that with the most serious offences within the Criminal Code, you will not be eligible to go home afterward. There are and will continue to be serious consequences.

Again, I think this helps people's confidence in the criminal justice system. We all have a stake in seeing that people have confidence in our justice system, and also in our political system. I belive this is a step in the right direction. The changes that clarify the provisions with respect to conditional sentencing are contained in this bill and are an important component of what we are proposing.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

You have ten seconds.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON

Thank you very much.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Mr. Cotler.