But I won't undertake—
Evidence of meeting #132 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cabinet.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #132 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cabinet.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:10 a.m.
St. Albert—Edmonton, CPC
You answered my question. You're going to undertake those two things.
11:10 a.m.
Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
No, I didn't undertake those two things. I'm going to take on advisement whether I can produce those notes.
11:10 a.m.
St. Albert—Edmonton, CPC
Thank you.
Mr. Lametti, immediately following The Globe and Mail's revelations of these very serious allegations, you were quoted on CTV as saying, “But certainly from what I have seen, and what the prime minister has said, I can reassure Canadians that there has been nothing inappropriate that has happened.”
Who told you to say that?
11:10 a.m.
Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
That quote was recorded on the 8th of February, I believe, the day after the revelations broke. At that point in time, we had only unsubstantiated, anonymous sources in The Globe and Mail, and we had the Prime Minister's unequivocal denial that any wrongdoing had happened.
11:15 a.m.
Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
That is precisely the answer, from what I had seen.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Minister, thank you for being here.
Madam Drouin, thanks for joining us today.
Minister Lametti, is it appropriate for the Prime Minister and officials to talk to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General about active cases and prosecutions, and is that an ordinary thing you would do in your role?
11:15 a.m.
Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
Absolutely. As I said in my opening remarks, the Attorney General can't be an island. The whole point of the Shawcross doctrine is that an attorney general can speak with cabinet colleagues about a variety of different considerations that might be pertinent to his or her decision in any particular case.
What is clear in the Shawcross doctrine is that, subsequent to those discussions, when an attorney general puts on his or her hat as attorney general, only the appropriate considerations that the attorney general himself or herself has in mind will be the basis for that decision.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Is there any timeline on when it would be inappropriate to have discussions with the Prime Minister or other officials or cabinet colleagues in the course of a prosecution?
11:15 a.m.
Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
It depends on the timeline of the discussion and the prosecution, but I can't say without any further context what would be appropriate or inappropriate.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Let me ask you this: If the director of public prosecutions makes a decision to proceed in a case, and the Attorney General may still have an option to instruct the prosecutor, for example, to enter into negotiations or a remediation agreement, but to do so would require public notice be made in the Canada Gazette, would it be appropriate for the Prime Minister and officials to discuss the matter with the Attorney General in contemplating such an instruction to a prosecutor?
11:15 a.m.
Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
I think, once again, the Shawcross doctrine would apply.
Those kinds of conversations would be appropriate to the Attorney General contemplating a decision on whether or not to direct a remediation agreement, but it is up to the Attorney General to make that decision himself or herself.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Minister, have you ever experienced inappropriate pressure being applied by the Prime Minister or anyone in the PMO on the issue of remediation agreements or any other legal issue?
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
In terms of the types of conversations that would occur between the Prime Minister, the Prime Minister's staff, or cabinet colleagues, would your expectation be that those would be robust conversations in contemplation of the application of both policy and law?
11:15 a.m.
Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
I have stated generally what my understanding of the Shawcross doctrine is, that there would be conversation that would be possible. I'm going to say that if I elaborate too much on that answer, it could put me into a territory where I'm speculating on what other people might do under similar circumstances. As a matter of prudence, I think it would be unwise for me to speculate on the kinds of conversations or perceptions that other people might have.
I can only speak to what I might do, which is certainly, if I felt that I was being directed, I would take a number of different actions under the circumstances, but I won't and shouldn't speculate on what other people might do.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Fair enough.
Madam Drouin, could I ask you a question.
With regard to the role of the director of public prosecutions and your role as deputy minister, you had talked about the fact that there was definitely a distinction between the two roles and the two hats you wear. Can you explain how those roles may interact with regard to any prosecution?
11:15 a.m.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
So, it's really the DPP who has the discretion and the responsibility to take any decision on a specific investigation to decide to lay charges or not. As I said in my opening remarks, I don't have any access...or I'm not aware of any evidence related to a specific investigation.
My role is to provide legal advice on any acts, and I can provide legal advice to the Attorney General to make sure that he understands how the DPP operates and also give him advice if he decides to exercise one of those rights.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Thank you.
Minister Lametti, going back to the appropriateness of conversations with cabinet colleagues, I assume that so far in your role as the Minister of Justice and Attorney General, you have had some of those conversations and that would be an ordinary thing that you would do in your role.
11:20 a.m.
Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
Absolutely. It is part of the familiarization, if you will, with the dossiers that I have to work with in my time as Attorney General.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
February 21st, 2019 / 11:20 a.m.
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you.
Welcome, Madam Deputy and Mr. Attorney General.
My first question is for you, Mr. Attorney General.
Yesterday, in an unprecedented event, the former attorney general rose in the House of Commons and asked if she could speak her truth.
In light of the fact that in her resignation letter she alluded to the importance of an independent attorney general in the prosecutorial function, and she also alluded to that in another context, I'm going to ask whether she will be allowed to speak her truth.
