Evidence of meeting #135 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was general.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michael Cooper  St. Albert—Edmonton, CPC
Michael Barrett  Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, CPC

5:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

My lived experience is incredibly important for my background, my upbringing and how I think about the world. It's that lived experience, not only as a professional but in being rooted in my Kwakwaka’wakw culture and the values that I was taught by my father, mother and grandmother, that brought me to my role as the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.

I believed, and I still believe today, that it is incredibly important to have a diversity of perspectives and background, and to have a country—and we live in the greatest country in the world—that respects every individual, with a recognition of the need for equality and the need for justice, and, in the case of indigenous peoples, that we continue to work hard to create the space for indigenous peoples to find their place and see themselves in the mirror of our Constitution.

5:45 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

I understand that my time is almost at an end. I want to sincerely thank you because you've presented a list of facts that I believe a reasonable person listening to this, and believing you, as I do, would have to conclude demonstrate a sustained pattern of political pressure and interference with the independent role that you swore an oath to fulfill. I cannot but think that we have more work to do as a result of your testimony.

I thank you sincerely, not just on our behalf, but on behalf of Canada for your courage in being here and telling us what happened.

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Next we go to Mr. Boissonnault.

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Wilson-Raybould, I really appreciate that you're here today. You and I have worked on a number of files together on a number of projects. I want to acknowledge your land acknowledgement as well. If I were back in Treaty 6 territory, I might say something like miyotôtâkewin tatawaw, which is Cree for “Guests, you're welcome, there's room here.” I appreciate what you've done and that reconciliation with indigenous peoples is all our responsibility and the responsibility of all Canadians.

We all have our different ways of working. I think it's known to people who've worked with you that you're a texter, so I just want to know if—

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

I'm a what, sorry?

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

You like texts, you communicate well by texting.

Did you ever express any concerns about this matter to Gerry Butts in writing, via text messaging, when you were Attorney General?

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

I would have to check, but I can't think of one off the top of my head.

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

Okay. Did you ever speak with or write to Katie Telford about the issue of SNC-Lavalin or other issues while you were AG?

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

Yes.

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

Did you ever speak about the issue of SNC-Lavalin, particularly with Ms. Telford?

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

Not that I recall.

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

Thank you very much.

You see the Prime Minister regularly. You're in the House daily, there are cabinet meetings, committee meetings, cabinet caucus, other meetings, other events. You've talked about the September 17 meeting. I have your document here, and I appreciate that you've provided a written document for us here. That meeting was with the Clerk and the Prime Minister.

As Attorney General, and given all the interactions that you detailed with us this afternoon. everything that played out over September, October, November and December, including the meeting with Ms. Prince, did you not have an obligation to raise these concerns with the Prime Minister, to call him or write him or stick up for your personnel or indicate that you felt that inappropriate pressure was being applied?

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

I did raise the inappropriateness of the conversation. I raised it with many individuals within the Prime Minister's Office. I raised it with the Prime Minister on January 7.

Again I am confident and know my role as the Attorney General and I know and understand that I am the final decision-maker on this when faced with sustained pressure or attempts at interference from September 17 up to and including December 19 by the Prime Minister's Office, by the Clerk of the Privy Council, by the Clerk of the Privy Council invoking the Prime Minister's name, I had concerns...beyond concerns. Why would I go to the Prime Minister to raise these concerns when I knew for certain that this, the DPA with SNC, would not occur because I am the final decision-maker and other individuals in the—

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

I'll get back to that issue of final decision-making.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

—Prime Minister's Office included who were putting pressure on me to change that, by virtue of the conversation with the Clerk, the Prime Minister.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

I appreciate that.

January 14 you accepted a new appointment to cabinet as the Minister of Veterans Affairs. You know what it's like in caucus. People run, they want to be MPs and people want to serve around the big table. That's part of being in this role. It's a great honour to serve as a minister in any portfolio. I can imagine the great honour it would be to serve the people who've served this country and who now live after having served. On that day accepting that position you reaffirmed your confidence in the government. Is that the case?

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

I was incredibly honoured to be the Minister of Veterans Affairs. It was a very different position from the one I had, but I embraced it, and I had a lot of considerations to make on a personal level over the time of Christmas and into the new year, and I'm getting to answering your question.

I had serious concerns, as I said, that, if I was no longer the Attorney General, there would be a deferred prosecution agreement entered into and that it would be posted in the Gazette. As I said, I would have resigned from cabinet at that time.

I decided—it was a very conscious decision—to take on the role that the Prime Minister offered me, and yes, it is an incredible honour. I don't want anybody to misconstrue that. I decided that I would take the Prime Minister at his word. I trusted him. I had confidence in him, and so I decided to continue on around the cabinet table with the concerns that I had around SNC, because I took the Prime Minister at his word.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

Thank you.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

It's your last question.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

So that oath that you took on January 14 reaffirmed your confidence in the government. Do you have confidence in the Prime Minister today?

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

I'll say this, and I'm not going to get into any conversations about why I resigned, other than to say this. I resigned from cabinet because I did not have confidence to sit around the cabinet table. That's why I resigned.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

My question wouldn't be why you did resign; my question would be: Why didn't you resign before?

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Folks, we've completed three rounds. Do we have people who wish to go to a fourth round?

5:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

We will go to a fourth round.

Would the witness like a break, a bathroom break or anything?