Evidence of meeting #144 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was leak.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Order.
Mr. DeCourcey has the floor. Other people were not interrupted when they spoke. This is not how we behave at this committee.
Mr. Decourcey has the floor. People can then ask for the floor and can respond to him in full.
Mr. DeCourcey.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Matt DeCourcey Liberal Fredericton, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Let's get to how the information would come out at this committee. It would necessarily be by dragging journalists in here and weaponizing the personal information that was delivered to them by sources, something that every member in the House has stood and on record voted against doing.
1:50 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Again, if you are not able to restrain yourself when Mr. DeCourcey speaks, why should he restrain himself while you speak?
This is a place where—
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Mr. Chair, he was making comments when we were speaking as well. The knife cuts both ways.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
And it would.
If I heard comments while you were speaking, I would say the same thing.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
He was talking about Twitter over there. I could hear him over here and you are closer to him than I am.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Again, I've heard a lot louder interruptions while Mr. DeCourcey has been speaking than I've heard for other speakers. I'm asking you to respect the fact that he has the floor. You're welcome to put your name back on the speakers list.
Mr. DeCourcey.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Matt DeCourcey Liberal Fredericton, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
In fact, those allegations are false.
Anyway, let me just quote something that was said in the House of Commons by the Conservative member, Mr. Deltell, on the matter of the importance of sources remaining protected as a matter of journalistic integrity, which we have all agreed is a cornerstone of our democracy in the debate on this bill.
Mr. Deltell said:
I will begin by talking about protecting sources. I mentioned it briefly earlier, but it is fundamental. In plying their trade, journalists are not immune to making mistakes, but when journalists want to do a thorough investigation, they must have the freedom to do so and, more importantly, the ability to speak openly to someone who wants to share information.
We all agree it's regrettable that this breach took place. We have seen that the Prime Minister has stood firm and consistently denied that this came from his office. The Attorney General has said the same. Members of the opposition who would have privileged information say the same. They're asking us to take them at their word. They should practise what they preach.
Thank you.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much.
We now have Mr. McKinnon and then Mr. MacKenzie, and then, If we want to vote before question period, I suggest we then move to a vote if we can.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Mr. DeCourcey touched on what I want to say.
Mr. Rankin says he's not the source of the leak. I take Mr. Rankin at his word. I've worked with Mr. Rankin for a number of years. He's a very honourable man.
I also spoke with the honourable Rob Nicholson. He said he didn't do it. I worked with him for a number of years, and I fully understand and believe that he is not the source as well.
The right honourable Prime Minister and the honourable David Lametti have both also stated that they have looked into this matter and have determined that it was not them or their departments. I have to take them at their word also.
In fact, if we can't take them at their word, then we cannot take Mr. Rankin at his word, nor Mr. Nicholson at his word. The scurrilous remarks about the Prime Minister by Mr. Cooper and the begrudging apology for that, as well as the other partisan remarks that are coming from the opposition, are in themselves more than sufficient to underscore that this is not an appropriate venue in which to deal with this matter.
I will certainly not be supporting this motion.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Mr. Chair, with all due respect, I understood the couple of comments about this government doing things differently. Mr. Casey's been here a while and I've been here a while. This is the third prime minister I have served with. Paul Martin was here, and then Stephen Harper, but we never saw then what's gone on with this Prime Minister in the last three and a half years. I wouldn't use the same word that Mr. Cooper used, but he certainly has a problem telling the reality of things, going back to the Globe and Mail article that initially started all this, saying that there's nothing there, that it is false.
When we look at it, I don't think anybody here has said that it's the Attorney General, or it's the former attorney general, or it's the Prime Minister who leaked it. But somebody did, and that's the whole issue. It's not to drag those people through a knothole, but it's to find out where the leaks came from.
When the government says it's going to do things differently, I think the best way to do that would be to prove it and get some of these people in and try to determine where it came from. It's not that somebody's going to go to jail or that somebody's going to be paying a huge price for it. But take that cloud off the Prime Minister. Take that cloud off the Attorney General. Mr. Rankin and Mr. Nicholson....
I'm sure that individually none of them did that, but let's find out who it is so that as we go forward, in fact, the Government of Canada will do things differently, not just the parties.
1:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much, Mr. MacKenzie.
We'll now move to the question. There was a request for a recorded vote, so I'll go to the clerk to ask for a recorded vote on Mr. Cooper's motion that is in front of everybody.
(Motion negatived: nays 5; yeas 4)
The motion is defeated.
If there's no other business, the meeting is adjourned.