Justice Committee on May 11th, 2017

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

We've had recent examples. I think you've touched on it briefly, but could you could expand on it? There have been recent examples of problematic judicial conduct in Canada. Will this funding help prevent future instances of such conduct? If so, how?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I believe that the intention of all training that is provided to judges—and certainly in a private member's bill that's been put forward to provide training to members of the legal profession who perhaps have the intention of becoming judges—is to assist in having that backdrop in the recognition that we're a country that has great diversity, and that sometimes individuals and marginalized communities can require certain approaches by or sensitivities from the judge they are appearing before.

I think it's always the objective in terms of training to provide the necessary tools to judges to increase their ability to be able to address individuals who come before them and, hopefully for all of us, to understand the different realities and circumstances that people are faced with.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Thank you very much.

We're going to start our second round of questioning. Just for the committee's recollection, because we usually do this more informally, in the second round it will be Liberal, Conservative, Liberal, Conservative, and NDP.

We're going to start with Mr. Fraser.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you, Minister, for being with us today, and to everyone else attending, thank you very much for taking the time to come in and offer comments and answer our questions.

I want to pick up on Mr. Bittle's questioning regarding judicial training. I know that funding to combat gender-based violence is something that our government sees as important, as is also ensuring that judges receive adequate training and education on matters relating to gender-based violence, including sexual assault.

I want to ask, Minister, is this type of training going to be offered both to superior court judges and to provincial court judges? Also, how are you working with the provinces to ensure that this type of education and this training are taking place?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you for the question. It gives me an opportunity to reiterate some of the efforts that we've been making in terms of addressing gender-based violence in the work we do.

In addition to the $2.7 million that was talked about in terms of the Canadian Judicial Council providing training, we've also provided dollars to the National Judicial Institute to assist in providing the same type of training in terms of sexual assault and gender-based violence not only to superior court justices, but to provincial court justices. That's money through Justice Canada.

Again, further, we are working with—and I will continue to work with—the Minister of Status of Women in the incredibly important work that she's doing around developing a gender-based violence strategy. Through the victims fund, the Department of Justice, as I've indicated, allocated millions of dollars to support local programs. We have had the opportunity to have an information exchange among many professionals who work in the area of gender-based violence and sexual assault and have benefited from their experiences. Further, as I said, in terms of the criminal justice review, we'll be looking at how we can further refine Criminal Code provisions around sexual assault and at clarifying provisions around consent.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you, Minister.

I believe you mentioned that $100,000 was the amount that had been set aside under the gender-based violence education program for judges. That seems like a rather small portion to the overall justice budget.

I'm just wondering if I understood that correctly and if you could elaborate on what that $100,000 represents.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

The deputy may want to add a bit here. The $100,000 is for training, as I said, for superior and provincial court judges, in addition to the $2.7 million that was identified in the budget.

With respect to our esteemed judiciary across the country, I have the utmost respect for the work they do and for their serious consideration and advancement of training and ensuring they have the necessary tools in place.

Deputy, do you want to make some comments?

[William F. Pentney, Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice]

I'll make two points.

First, the National Judicial Institute is a creature of the judiciary in the sense that governments shouldn't be delivering the training directly. We should be proud that we have something like the National Judicial Institute. I think it's recognized as a jewel of the crown.

In terms of support for our judiciary, both in the superior court and at the federal level, and to the extent they can in supporting provincial judges.... It's a big country, and judges are very busy hearing cases. Part of what we hope the $100,000 will allow the NJI to do is expand their already existing offerings and make them available online as well. The NJI already runs in-person training on social context specifically on sexual assault, on managing sexual assault trials, and those sorts of things. What we're trying to help them do as well is expand those offerings to them and make them more available online.

So $100,000 doesn't sound like a lot, but in addition to the existing investments that have been made in judicial training and the new money in the budget, we think it will allow them to provide robust and comprehensive training both to the superior court judges and to the provincial courts.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Very good.

Switching gears a little bit to the judicial advisory committees and the new process for appointing committees across the country for judicial appointments, I'm wondering where we're at with those committees, how many of them have been put together, how many are left to be done, and what the timeline looks like on getting those all going.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

In terms of the judicial advisory committees, the vast majority of them are constituted, but I know the New Brunswick JAC hasn't been. My apologies, I don't have the exact numbers, but I can provide them to this committee. Most of them have been constituted.

They have been incredible in terms of the commitment to reviewing judicial applications on an expedited basis. When they review and recommend a particular individual, it comes across my desk very quickly thereafter, and I make a decision with respect to the individual and make decisions with respect to the urgent needs in the jurisdictions.

I've been very pleased over the last month plus to make judicial appointments on an ongoing weekly basis, and that is going to continue. We have appointed now 55 judges, 22 deputy judges, and more will be coming in the very near future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Cooper.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

The first issue I want to raise is with respect to Bill C-39, which you made reference to. That's the bill, of course, to remove constitutionally inoperative sections of the Criminal Code. I want to thank you for your leadership in introducing that legislation.

I know our chair led this issue following the conviction on two counts of second-degree murder in the case of Travis Vader being vacated after the judge applied a constitutionally inoperative section. It's an issue that I raised, given the close connection that case has to the community that I represent of St. Albert. That bill was introduced on March 8. It has now been two months, and nothing has happened.

How many more months will it be before Bill C-39 is debated in Parliament?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

You acknowledged the chair, but I would acknowledge that the entire committee sent me a letter. I very much appreciate the urgency of advancing a cleanup of the Criminal Code. As I stated both in the House and outside, Bill C-39 is the first phase of the cleanup. I am hopeful that this piece of legislation will move as quickly as possible. I certainly don't know how quickly that will be, but I think it's very important. When it does come back, I'm hopeful that all members will support its moving quickly.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

I'd like to turn to another issue, one that has been raised by Mr. Fraser: judicial advisory committees. You mentioned that the vast majority of judicial advisory committees had been filled. However, as of today, seven out of 17 judicial advisory committees have not been filled. That includes the Tax Court of Canada, southwestern Ontario, the Northwest Territories, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, New Brunswick, and Nunavut. How can you say that the vast majority of judicial advisory committees have been filled?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

As I said to Mr. Fraser, I would be happy to provide the list of the outstanding judicial advisory committees. The vast majority of judicial advisory committees in jurisdictions that have urgent need are working diligently to bring forward names. This is not to say that they're not all urgent; I'm committed to filling all vacancies. I would be pleased to provide the honourable member with a list of the outstanding ones. We will be working to have those remaining JACs in place soon.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Minister, I guess I already provided the list. In addition to that, Nova Scotia, Yukon, and Quebec—East were vacant as recently as a month ago.

You reconstituted judicial advisory committees in October. How do you justify the fact that it's been six or seven months and we have seven out of 17 of these JACs empty, and as recently as a month ago, 10 out of 17?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I am working diligently to ensure that our new judicial appointments process moves forward. I'm pleased to have reconstituted the judicial advisory committees, and I am working with partners to ensure that we identify and appoint names to all of the judicial advisory committees, committees that certainly reflect a diversity among Canadians.

I'm pleased that the judicial advisory committees will receive implicit bias training. We redid the appointments process and the judicial advisory committee process to ensure that we do as much as we can to end up in a place where my judicial appointments reflect the diversity of the country. I'm incredibly pleased with the inroads that we've made in that regard: in some jurisdictions appointing over 65% women...diversity, including indigenous peoples and LGBTQ individuals. I'm pleased with the way that the appointments process is unfolding and with the substantive calibre of the individuals who have been recommended or highly recommended to me.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

I will tell you who is not pleased: the families of victims who have seen serious criminal cases, including first-degree murder, child abuse, and sexual assault cases, being thrown out. Thousands of cases are at risk. The Jordan decision is not new. It was issued last summer. The response that you took to that decision was to dismantle the judicial advisory committees.

We now have 62 judicial vacancies. You said you have appointed 55 judges. There are more judicial vacancies than you have managed to appoint in the last 18 months. Over the last 18 months, months have gone by in which you have failed to appoint a single judge. The number of judicial vacancies is at a near-historic level. It's just unheard of to have 62 judicial vacancies. It's not 62 this month; this has been the case for a long time.

What is it going to take before you fulfill your duty as Minister of Justice to fill the judicial vacancies in a timely manner? How many more cases are going to be thrown out before that happens?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I am pleased to be fulfilling my role as minister in appointing substantive candidates for judicial appointments to our superior courts. You indicated that the Jordan decision is not new. I will say that delays are not new. They've been around for a long time. There is no one answer to solving delays in the criminal justice system.

This is why I've been working very collaboratively with my partners in the provinces and territories, who have responsibility for the administration of justice in 99% of the criminal cases in provincial courts. This is why we are taking a substantive, collaborative approach to do as the Supreme Court of Canada directed us to do, which is to have a culture shift in the justice system, and a culture shift requires a rethinking of all the actors within it. We are going to collectively look at mandatory minimum penalties, which lead to delays. We're going to be looking at preliminary inquiries, bail, and the administration of justice so as to ensure that we do everything we can to reduce the delays. It is simply not true to think that just by appointing judges, which I am committed to doing on an expedited basis, we are going to solve the delays in the criminal justice system. For 10 years, the previous government did not address these delays, which have been around for a lot longer than that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Housefather]

Thank you very much.

Mr. McKinnon.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Minister, and thank you, officials, for joining us today. Some of these faces are becoming very familiar.

I'm interested in the indigenous justice program. I wonder, Minister, if you could describe this more fully and tell us why you believe it's important to make funding permanent.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I'm really pleased that the money for the indigenous justice program has been made permanent. We can look at many examples across the country where there are culturally appropriate community approaches to addressing individuals who find themselves in the criminal justice system. This is something that I applaud and want to continue to pursue.

The overrepresentation of individuals, marginalized individuals, indigenous peoples in the criminal justice system needs to be addressed through innovative practices, through culturally appropriate practices, and through prevention. This will help us to address the ongoing reality of the colonial legacy and to pursue restorative justice measures.

This is where the indigenous justice program is so great—it assists us in finding what other measures we can support to do as much as we can to create off-ramps so that individuals, indigenous peoples who find themselves in the justice system, can take advantage of those off-ramps, of those restorative justice measures. I've been pleased to have many round tables, along with my officials, across the country where we learn of substantive examples that communities are undertaking in this regard.

With respect to indigenous peoples, we are looking at different approaches to rehabilitation, different off-ramps, to assist in what I believe is a fundamental obligation to look at rehabilitation in the criminal justice system. A substantial number of individuals are there because of marginalization, poverty, mental illness, and addictions. We need to find ways to ensure that we are doing everything we can as a government and as a society to assist those individuals and give them the help they need to address those addictions.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I'm going to move on. I was fortunate enough to have a chat with the deputy premier of Nunavut yesterday. I note that through the access to justice services agreements the Department of Justice supports the delivery of access to justice services in northern communities. This includes criminal and civil legal aid, indigenous courtwork services, and public and legal education and information.

Are these funds specifically for the territories, or are northern communities in the provinces also included? Are the eligibility criteria for legal aid different in northern communities?

[William F. Pentney]

Perhaps, Mr. Chair, I can take that question.

Recognizing the differences in the territories in terms of size, scope, and scale, we've combined a series of programs. As you said, we've been for many years now combining a variety of programs through access to justice agreements. Given the jurisdictional responsibilities that provinces and territories have for legal aid, they each establish their own eligibility and administration requirements. We have found in collaboration with the territories that the access to justice agreement offers them a degree of flexibility. Given that they have a lot of land and few people, if I can put it that way, their administration of justice is different.

There are similarities, for example, if you go from northern Quebec to northern Ontario, across the northern parts of the territories. Certainly, provinces collaborate through that, but we provide funding for legal aid and other programs to the provinces. I would say, though, if you like, there is a northern collaboration, south of 60°, given the similarities there; but the truth is the provinces have a program administration capacity that's different from what the territories currently possess, so we transfer program by program to the provinces.