Evidence of meeting #56 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cannabis.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

William F. Pentney  Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to share the rest of my time with Ms. Khalid.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Sure. You've about a minute left.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and everybody, for coming before us today.

Minister, I was reading in the paper today that a certain Ms. M, whose testimony had proved vital to the expulsion of a senator from our Senate, felt that she could not access the Ottawa police because she feared for her identity being made public, and didn't feel safe to enter into that system.

We've really undertaken an in-depth study as to access to justice. I personally have found that women tend to not have as much access as others. For example, women tend to need family court a lot more than males do.

We heard testimony with respect to unified family courts. I'm wondering if you can expand on what our government is doing with respect to investing in this type of process to assist with more equality in access to justice for women.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

In terms of women, and women who have faced gender-based violence or sexual assault, we've talked a lot about what we've been doing here at this committee and beyond. We'll continue with those efforts to ensure that we provide a safe space for individuals to feel more free to come forward, and that they're provided with the necessary protection.

In terms of the unified family courts, as you know, it's in my mandate letter. Unified family courts are showing substantive benefits and progress in terms of providing increased access to justice in jurisdictions. I've had the benefit of speaking with a number of my counterparts in the provinces in this regard. I have had the opportunity to ask my counterparts whether they have an interest in either increasing their unified family courts, or becoming more involved in an initiative in that regard. That work is ongoing. We, my officials, more importantly, continue to have discussions within the provinces to see how big the interest is. I'm hopeful that we can move forward with respect to unified family courts in the next year.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Thank you.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Mr. Falk.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Thank you, Minister, for coming to the committee.

I was recently watching a panel discussion in which you and the Minister of Health were discussing the proposed marijuana legislation. I forget who the host was. Of particular interest to me was a comment you made, that you had not ever been a cannabis user, nor did you expect to be after this legislation was passed.

I have two questions for you.

First, why is it not a good thing for you, but it's okay for others—even for the youth of our society—to have access to cannabis as a recreational drug? I commend you for your personal position.

Second, I'm looking at the legislation your government has presented so far in the last year and a half, which you say you're very proud of. Bill C-14, the medical assistance in dying legislation, now allows Canadians to legally have their lives terminated with the assistance of a physician. Bill C-16 addresses what I think is an imaginary gap in both our Canadian Human Rights Act and our Criminal Code. Bill C-32 repeals section 159 of the Criminal Code, which addresses anal sex. Bill C-37, which repeals the Respect for Communities Act, will now make it easier for safe injection sites to be located in different communities across Canada. The most recent one, Bill C-45, is of course on the legalization of marijuana.

My question on all those issues is, I think, quite simple. These pieces of legislation seem to have a particular theme to them. I'm wondering what it is that motivates your government to, in my opinion, be so bent on and recklessly determined to destroy our social and moral fabric?

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

I completely disagree with your last statement.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

It's a question.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

Our government is committed to ensuring that we uphold the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, ensuring that everybody has the freedom to be themselves, and ensuring that every individual is accorded the same respect and dignity in a country as great as Canada.

As Minister of Justice and the Attorney General of Canada, I will not ever apologize for putting legislation forward that provides the means for individuals who qualify to access medical assistance in dying. I will not apologize for ensuring I protect the rights of those who have a different gender identity or expression. Section 159 of the Criminal Code has been deemed unconstitutional, and we are going to move that legislation forward.

Again, we as a government are making decisions that ensure that we uphold what makes this country great, which is its diversity. We benefit from having a Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and it is my most important job to ensure that we uphold those rights. If I didn't do that, I wouldn't be doing my job. I will not apologize for those pieces of legislation, but I will stand up and shout from the rooftops as to the substantive public policy that stands behind each of those pieces of legislation and those bills. I would be happy to have a conversation with you, sir, about the public policy reasons behind all of those pieces of legislation.

As to whether or not I've smoked cannabis, that is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is the public policy reason for putting forward Bill C-45. That is to ensure that when we legalize, strictly regulate, and restrict access to marijuana, that we do better than the status quo right now, and ensure that we keep it out of the hands of kids, and keep the proceeds out of the hands of criminals.

If you want to challenge me on the public policy reasons behind the legislation, I'm happy to engage in that discussion.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Thank you very much.

Mr. Nicholson has asked to have one short question at the end of Mr. Falk's time. Mr. Falk is sharing his time with Mr. Nicholson.

You have a very short time.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON

On the subject of judicial delays, one of the suggestions, which I know has come from the attorney general of Ontario and some others, is to have a look at the area of preliminary hearings.

In your opinion, do you think this might help expedite the criminal law process, and would you consider it?

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

As justice ministers across the country, we agreed that this is one area we would look at. I know that preliminary inquiries are not without controversy in terms of different approaches. I've been approached by, as you say, the Attorney Generals of Ontario and Manitoba to consider this; and that is the work that we as justice ministers are going to undertake over the summer. We will come back in the fall to see what we can do not only in the area of potentially preliminary inquiries, or maybe other modes of disclosure that we can address, but also at bail, the administration of justice, and sooner than that, at mandatory minimums. All of these things contribute to delays in the criminal justice system.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Thank you so much.

Last question, Mr. MacGregor.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Thank you again, Minister. I'm pleased to have this follow-up.

Your government has now been in power for nearly 19 months. We had the Jordan decision rendered in the summer of last year. I agree with you that it's not just appointing judges that will fix the delays in our justice system. There are many different areas. I think the Canadian Bar Association came out with a top 10 list. I think number one was appointing enough judges. Our criticisms are valid in that it has taken a while to get to this process and we would urge you to do it a bit faster. Nineteen months is a fairly long time. But they've also talked about adequately resourcing legal aid, and as you know this committee is currently conducting a study on legal aid, and I certainly hope you will listen to our recommendations.

Also, one of the biggest ones was resourcing the system. On that particular point, I want to concentrate on the resources because, of course, courts need a lot of administrative staff. They need the places in which to sit. There are a lot of people involved in making sure that a well-functioning court system is operational. I think you would agree with me that Canadians need to have faith in our justice system. It's one of the main pillars of our democracy. I know that you're concerned, as we are, that when serious criminal charges are being stayed or withdrawn, Canadians start to lose faith in that. It's a very real issue.

In light of the resource part, I want to know from you, from your department, in your opinion, how many resources in our courts and in our police are currently tied up with the crime of cannabis possession? As a follow-up, does the Department of Justice have any figures on the number of people who have been charged and arrested for minor cannabis possession since your government came to power?

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

Thank you for the last two questions. I don't have those specific answers. I know once I leave here that the Public Prosecution Service will be here. If we don't have the specific answers, we're very happy to do what we can to follow up and provide you with those answers in terms of the resources and in terms of charges. I'm happy to do that, as a short answer to your question.

In terms of resources, generally, I'm very happy to have made additional investments into legal aid.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

It's cannabis. If Jordan is a big problem and issue for our justice system, how many of our court resources are being tied up with something that's going to be legalized by your government next year? Wouldn't that be a good fix in the meantime, Minister? That's what I'm trying to get to.

4:30 p.m.

Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice

William F. Pentney

Certainly the Public Prosecution Service would have more, but if you look at the top 10 offences as reported by the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, you see that impaired driving will be number one or number two. Offences, broadly speaking, against the administration of justice will be probably three out of the top five in all jurisdictions. We will be happy to provide you with further information about simple cannabis possession, but if you look at volume impaired driving, as I say, you see it's number one or number two; and easily three of the top five would be offences against the administration of justice. If you look at the elements that are driving delay, you see there are a variety of those contributing factors. The Public Prosecution Service could, at least, I'm sure, provide you further information on their prosecution efforts. You'd have to ask the RCMP and other police in respect to police resources.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Thank you.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Thank you very much. I know the Minister and Mr. Pentney have another engagement, so I would like to thank you, Minister, for coming before our committee and answering our questions so eloquently. Mr. Pentney, as well, it is much appreciated.

Colleagues, do you have questions for the services beyond the questions that have already been asked of the Minister? No.

Mr. Bittle had a short motion.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

I have a very short motion. I move:

That the Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act be referred to the committee on May 18, 2017.

(Motion agreed to)

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Thank you very much.

We have the motions on the main estimates.

ADMINISTRATIVE TRIBUNALS SUPPORT SERVICE OF CANADA Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$52,628,925

(Vote 1 agreed to)

CANADIAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$19,222,932

(Vote 1 agreed to)

COURTS ADMINISTRATION SERVICE Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$68,590,696

(Vote 1 agreed to)

DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE Vote 1—Operating expenditures.........$234,300,919 Vote 5—Grants and contributions...........$350,315,319

(Votes 1 and 5 agreed to)

OFFICE OF THE COMMISSIONER FOR FEDERAL JUDICIAL AFFAIRS Vote 1—Operating expenditures..........$8,779,358 Vote 5—Canadian Judicial Council—Operating expenditures..........$3,525,036

(Votes 1 and 5 agreed to)

OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$161,657,167

(Vote 1 agreed to)

REGISTRAR OF THE SUPREME COURT OF CANADA Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$24,916,433

(Vote 1 agreed to)

Shall I report these votes, less the amounts voted in interim supply, to the House?

4:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

On division.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Thank you very much, colleagues. I wish everybody a very good rest of Thursday.

The meeting is adjourned.