Evidence of meeting #77 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jurors.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
I'll try to get them in as quickly as I can.
One is for clarification. Mr. Cozine, did I hear you say that on the day you were selected for jury duty, your trial started an hour and a half later?
5:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes. Our jury selection was concluded about, I'm going to say, 20 minutes to noon. By the time you then go into your jury-room, meet with your bailiff, and you're out of there, it's about noon. We were told to be back by 1:30 for the trial to start that afternoon. Yes, it was tough to get things in order over a very short period of time.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
To confirm that I heard both of you correctly, please answer this question. If appropriate pretrial education and counselling was provided so that jurors were prepared for the worst, let's say, do you think that would help the post-counselling need? In other words, would it help to act preventatively versus dealing with the issue after?
5:50 p.m.
As an Individual
I said in my recommendations that I believe that jurors should have an informed choice to serve, and I said that because I genuinely think that in life there are different times when you can take on more, and then there are times when things are already sort of at the end and you can't take on any more.
To serve as a juror, you need space, because it's going to take time in your life to process, to be involved, and to be away from your career and your family and personal pressures. I don't know that you need to necessarily get into the details of preparing for the worst, but just even a Coles Notes version of what your experience may be, and that it's normal to feel like this is an intense, crazy situation that you would never have prepared for, would be helpful—just some of those things.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
5:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I would absolutely echo that. I don't think you want to tell people that this will be “the worst”, because then they'll say they're out and they won't do it, and you need people to do it. I think you can just speak in generalities to people.
You can tell them that there will be stresses, and you can give them some ways to deal with these stresses throughout the trial. As Ms. Swan said, you can give them some good mental health tips, i.e., “Over the next few weeks, you're going to be experiencing some of these stresses. Here are good ways to deal with them.” It's never a bad idea to do that.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
I have two things, just quickly, that you don't even need to comment on. I just want to throw them on the table.
Would a change to the EI system where the minute you're selected for jury duty you're eligible for EI be a reasonable compensation model that could be considered?
Secondly, Mr. Cozine, you had a unique experience by being the 13th or 14th person. Do you have any recommendations on how that could be improved on? As an example, does it make sense that they select 12 for a jury and then select two additional ones, where you know you're a reserve or something like that?
If you have any quick comments on either of those things, please feel free to answer. If not, I will just throw them on the table.
My chairman is probably waving his finger at me, if I have the courage to look at him....
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
I never wave a finger.
Mr. Cozine, did you want to answer that?
5:55 p.m.
As an Individual
Sure.
About having two people designated as reserve, I think it would help, in the end, to know if you're going to be off. As well, I wasn't in that deliberation. I can't understand the stresses that Ms. Swan had, and I don't want to add two more people to that. But if people are going to be on a jury and stick it out through those awful things that they have to see, for that long, I honestly don't know why they wouldn't be able to then be in the deliberations.
I understand if there's an odd number and those kinds of things. In our case, there were 14 left at the end. Would it be possible to have 14 people deliberate? I guess that would mean a change to the jury act and those things, but it's one thing I've often thought about.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you so much.
Does anyone who has not asked a question have a question?
Mr. McKinnon, you can ask a very brief last question.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Mr. Cozine, I believe you said in your testimony, about being selected for the jury, that you “should never have been there”. I'm curious about that. Would you like to elaborate on that?
5:55 p.m.
As an Individual
When you go into jury selection, you're in a room with hundreds of people. You think, “You know what? I have to go. I have lots to do. Why am I here?” You get up to the front, you're the next person in line, and the next thing you know you're in the jury box. You're going, “How did I get here? I'm not supposed to be here. I should be back to work by now.”
There are hundreds of people, but 14 are chosen. The odds are not good that you will be chosen. You think, “Why should I be...? This shouldn't be me.”
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Before the video conference link breaks, I want to thank you so much, Mr. Cozine, for being here with us.
Ms. Swan, thank you very much for being here with us. It was greatly appreciated. Your testimony was enormously helpful to us.
I'm sorry we were so late. Again, we really appreciate it.
The meeting is adjourned.