Evidence of meeting #78 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jurors.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Shauna Jobagy  Deputy Clerk of the Court, Court of Queen's Bench, Alberta Juror Support Program
Dora Newcombe  Alberta Juror Support Program
Claude Bourque  Ontario Juror Support Program
Shannon Jensen  Manager, Court Operations, Yukon Court Services
Julia Bielecka  Manager, Operational Support, Court Services Division, Ministry of the Attorney General, Ontario Juror Support Program

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

You guys have two more minutes. Does anybody else...?

Go ahead, Mr. Cooper.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Thank you, witnesses.

Ms. Bielecka, I have a couple of questions about Ontario's program. In terms of the counselling services, you said there are eight. There are three one-hour sessions, and then provision for additional sessions. That's at whose discretion? Is it the counsellor?

4:50 p.m.

Manager, Operational Support, Court Services Division, Ministry of the Attorney General, Ontario Juror Support Program

Julia Bielecka

Our program offers four initial sessions; then, at the discretion of the counsellor, the counsellor is able to recommend an additional four. That is a total of eight sessions.

Beyond that, those cases are dealt with on an individual basis. To date, we have not received any requests for more than eight sessions. We heard previously from Ms. Jobagy in Alberta. We don't see people using that many, but as a province and in our agreement with Morneau Shepell, we are open to exploring further sessions should the need arise.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Is there a cap on the toll-free 24-hour service that can be done by phone or done online?

4:50 p.m.

Manager, Operational Support, Court Services Division, Ministry of the Attorney General, Ontario Juror Support Program

Julia Bielecka

That's all within the sessions. Essentially, the eight sessions can be done in the manner the juror chooses. That means a person can do it by phone. If they want to do another session by email or they want to do another one in person, it is up to that individual to decide.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

You mentioned that 24 jurors have approached Morneau Shepell for counselling services. That's out of approximately how many jurors over the last year or so that it's been in place?

4:50 p.m.

Manager, Operational Support, Court Services Division, Ministry of the Attorney General, Ontario Juror Support Program

Julia Bielecka

It's been in place for about a year. Last year there were around 7,000 jurors in the province of Ontario.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Okay.

In the testimony that was provided in terms of a program in Alberta, I think it was said that on average there were about three counselling sessions. Is that consistent with what you're finding in Ontario amongst the 24 or so jurors who've accessed the program?

4:55 p.m.

Manager, Operational Support, Court Services Division, Ministry of the Attorney General, Ontario Juror Support Program

Julia Bielecka

Yes, that's correct. I would say that around two to three is the standard for most individuals.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Thank you.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Ms. Khalid is next.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for your testimony today.

Ms. Bielecka, we just heard that there are about 7,000 jurors who go through the process per year, out of which a very small number use the counselling services. Do you think that is because those counselling services are not required by the majority of jurors, or is it because there is a lack of willingness or perhaps of information for jurors, I guess, for them to be able to know that this service is out there for them?

4:55 p.m.

Manager, Operational Support, Court Services Division, Ministry of the Attorney General, Ontario Juror Support Program

Julia Bielecka

Counselling for anyone is extremely individual. I don't think everyone necessarily needs counselling, and I also think that it's a process to go through counselling. Anyone who's ever participated in counselling knows that it's extremely difficult. It requires a lot of work on the part of the individual. It really would vary by the person who wants that counselling. I think that explains why some may choose to use the service and some may not. Some have other supports that they utilize within their communities, such as family and friends, which they would rely on more, let's say, than a counsellor specifically.

In terms of information to jurors, every single juror in our province receives the pamphlet. I've brought it here today to leave with the committee for your reference in the future. Within the pamphlet itself, there is also a little pullout card. In Ontario, we thought that sometimes the effects of this trauma can come about later down the line, and at that point in time the pamphlet may be somewhere, but they're not able to find it, so we've put together this wallet insert that they can take away with them in order to have the number with them at any point in time.

The information is available online as well. They can contact us. They can contact counsellors directly by calling the toll-free number, but should a member of the public contact our ministry or any one of our courthouses about this service, they will be referred directly to Morneau Shepell.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

How long is there between the juror being relieved of their duty to basically taking those services? Is there a cut-off when those services are no longer available?

4:55 p.m.

Manager, Operational Support, Court Services Division, Ministry of the Attorney General, Ontario Juror Support Program

Julia Bielecka

We in Ontario do not have a cut-off. Essentially, in developing this program in partnership with Morneau Shepell and using the good advice that we had from Alberta, we didn't want anyone to be disadvantaged. We didn't want anyone to be left behind. We thought that we were not in a position to make a determination about when someone is no longer in need of our services. We wanted it to be available for any juror at any time. Sometimes these things come up many months or years after the fact. We wanted people to feel supported regardless of when they served.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Is there a formal debriefing process in Ontario for jurors who are just coming out of jury duty, either by the courts or by Morneau Shepell, if that's the case?

4:55 p.m.

Manager, Operational Support, Court Services Division, Ministry of the Attorney General, Ontario Juror Support Program

Julia Bielecka

I wouldn't say that the process is consistent across the province. I don't think there is a formal debriefing process. I am aware that certain judicial officials, depending on the facts of the case and on what has happened during the course of that trial, may choose to address the jury. What happens at the end is that the jurors are provided with this brochure and informed about the counselling services that are available to them.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Do you think a formal debriefing process that is consistent would be helpful for jurors in general?

4:55 p.m.

Manager, Operational Support, Court Services Division, Ministry of the Attorney General, Ontario Juror Support Program

Julia Bielecka

Yes. From some of the information we've heard from former jurors and as this committee has also heard in past sessions, jurors would feel supported by having a formal debriefing at the end. That way they would feel, I guess, that there was some sort of closure, in a sense, to their experience.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

In an earlier panel we heard that there is kind of an exit survey, a satisfaction questionnaire, administered to those who use the counselling services. Is there a similar process for Ontario as well, in which there is a satisfaction questionnaire? If there is, can we see what kinds of questions are on that survey?

5 p.m.

Manager, Operational Support, Court Services Division, Ministry of the Attorney General, Ontario Juror Support Program

Julia Bielecka

Claude, can you please take that one on behalf of Morneau?

5 p.m.

Ontario Juror Support Program

Claude Bourque

Absolutely.

Following the first session that takes place, a hard-copy survey is provided to the juror. It is left to the juror to complete and return that document. Those would be brought together and delivered to the ministry, in terms of the statistics.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Can we see it? What are some of the questions asked on this survey?

5 p.m.

Ontario Juror Support Program

Claude Bourque

The questions are in line with our employee assistance program, so there would be questions like “Would there be lost days if you had not accessed the service?” There would be questions about the quality of the service, starting from the first call through to the meeting with the counsellor as well.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Thank you.