Evidence of meeting #78 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jurors.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Shauna Jobagy  Deputy Clerk of the Court, Court of Queen's Bench, Alberta Juror Support Program
Dora Newcombe  Alberta Juror Support Program
Claude Bourque  Ontario Juror Support Program
Shannon Jensen  Manager, Court Operations, Yukon Court Services
Julia Bielecka  Manager, Operational Support, Court Services Division, Ministry of the Attorney General, Ontario Juror Support Program

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

I call the meeting to order.

Good afternoon, everyone. It is a pleasure to reconvene the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. As we continue our study on mental health support for jurors, we have the pleasure today of being joined from Medicine Hat by Ms. Shauna Jobagy, who is a deputy clerk of the Court of Queen's Bench of Alberta.

Welcome, Ms. Jobagy.

Ms. Dora Newcombe, who is representing the Alberta juror support program, is joining us from Edmonton.

Welcome, Ms. Newcombe.

Ladies, what we're going to do is hear from you—about eight minutes for the two of you—and then what we really want to do is ask you questions. We're going to start with the questions as soon as you've finished your opening statements.

Ladies, the floor is yours. I'm not sure who's starting.

3:45 p.m.

Shauna Jobagy Deputy Clerk of the Court, Court of Queen's Bench, Alberta Juror Support Program

I will start.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and honourable members. Thank you for the opportunity to present this afternoon on behalf of Alberta Justice.

As a bit of background, I have been employed with Alberta Justice for 35 years. I have been part of the process of summonsing jurors, clerking the jury trial, clerking the selection, and scheduling the jury trials. Most recently, I was the team lead in implementing the Alberta juror support program.

Years ago, Alberta was concerned about the effect on jurors of both toxic evidence and of being in a very confrontational jury room, as most jurors come with no experience with regard to either. In fact, I still have the mental health package that we used in our jurisdiction, dated 2008.

Each court in Alberta was providing juror counselling assistance in their own unique way; however, there was no unified approach. Our concern was the result of our own experiences, which was supported by the research that follows.

In 2009, Madam Justice Elizabeth Hughes and her team produced a report wherein one of the recommendations was to implement a juror support program as a result of her research in the field. Justice Hughes' research included references to the study by the University of Leicester in the United Kingdom called “Vicarious Traumatization as a Consequence of Jury Service”, which includes earlier studies from Canada, the United States, and New Zealand.

This study revealed that for the more vulnerable candidates, jury duty can lead to severe stress or post-traumatic stress disorder, or what the researchers refer to as “vicarious traumatization”. The findings showed that some 23% of the jurors reported dealing with traumatic events; 5% reported that they had responded with intense fear, helplessness, or horror; and one juror was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder.

She references literature from “Stress and the Canadian Criminal Trial Jury” by Sanjeev Anand and Heather Manweiller, which includes American case studies that conclude that if juries are to continue to play a role in the administration of criminal justice, the impact of trials on jurors cannot continue to be largely ignored.

Her research identifies the program already implemented in Queensland, Australia, where their Jury Act indicates, “A former member of a jury may disclose jury information to a health professional who is treating the former member in relation to issues arising out of the former member’s service on the jury.”

As a result of this research, counselling has been recognized as a necessary and important part of our system to support jurors on all criminal trials, notwithstanding their nature. As you've heard in your recent committee meetings, not only can trial evidence impact a juror, but what happens in the jury room itself may also affect a juror's emotional health.

The report made four recommendations. The first three were to provide juror counselling, to update our current handout mailed to prospective jurors regarding the process, and to create one consistent general information sheet to be provided to the selected jurors in all Alberta locations. It also made recommendations regarding jury comfort, an increase in fees, reimbursement for lost wages, escorts, and so on.

To implement the recommendation for a juror support program, the team developed a process to ensure that all jurors who required assistance could access it, that program information was provided to all jurors regardless of subject matter, and that the same services were being offered consistently province-wide. The judiciary can now rely on court administration to ensure that this practice is being followed, no matter which jurisdiction they may be sitting in.

Justice Hughes also recommended that jurors be enabled to access this counselling at any time after the commencement of a trial, including mid-trial; however, the sessions have to be focused on emotional issues and not on the evidence.

Through the procurement process, an invitation to tender was circulated, wherein Shepell-fgi was the successful service provider.

The team had recommended that four sessions be offered per juror, to be utilized within two months of the conclusion of the trial, with a clause added that should the counsellor determine that more sessions were required, an application for an extension could be submitted to our department for consideration. This figure was a result of consultations with our Shepell contacts—Dora Newcombe, who is joining us, and Claude Bourque—and Madam Justice Hughes, through Corinne Jamieson, our Court of Queen's Bench executive director here in Alberta.

Shepell drafted two handouts to be provided to jurors at the beginning of the trial, one providing information regarding the impact of a court case and another with contact information on how to cope when a difficult court case has concluded. Jurors can access the toll-free number provided on the handout that will connect them directly with a counsellor.

As a side note, it is important to mention that some of our judiciaries do take the time to meet with the jury panel in the jury room after the trial has concluded, when it's appropriate. At that time, they also remind them of our counselling offer.

In Alberta, for a one-year period from September 2015 to August 2016, 68 jury trials were conducted. They impacted approximately 816 Albertans, and seven contacted Shepell for counselling.

Thank you. That's my presentation.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Newcombe.

3:50 p.m.

Dora Newcombe Alberta Juror Support Program

Members, thank you for this opportunity to appear before the committee this afternoon to talk about an important subject, mental health support for Canadian jurors.

At Morneau Shepell, we're proud of the work we've done with our provincial partners and pleased to see this committee take an active interest in ensuring jurors are provided high-quality support, especially after challenging and graphic trials.

As a leader in the mental health field and mental health solutions since 1979, we have experience and expertise in helping individuals and their families deal with a range of traumatic events. It was through our partnership with Alberta Justice and Ms. Jobagy and her team that we were able to start the dialogue around support for jurors following the research that had been done by Madam Justice E.A. Hughes.

It's really important that we look at the impact of a trial on a juror. I don't believe that many times people understand what jury members go through. They're getting called to do their civic duty, which is quite honourable, but in being part of a jury, they don't really know what they're going to be in for. As a result, what may happen is that they're exposed to graphic information, as you heard during your earlier hearings, and it can lead to higher risk of longer-term adverse experiences.

When we started having these discussions with Alberta Justice, the nature of all the impacts wasn't really clear. There wasn't a clear blueprint or outline regarding best practices, so we really were on the cutting and leading edge of this whole initiative.

I need to point out that it was a long journey to get to this point of launching this program, but we really wanted to do our due diligence, whether that would be from Morneau Shepell or the Alberta Justice team, to look at all the key issues.

We have a program that is available to support jurors right from the very beginning, because they're given resource information to help them prepare for what they might experience. Also, they have access to counselling support during and after the trial, because we recognize that when jurors are coming to participate in a jury trial, they may already have challenges in their lives. That can also impact them and add additional stress during the jury and trial process. It's not just for the juror; we also have to understand that when one individual is participating in a jury, it also has an impact on the family.

We looked at offering counselling, as has been mentioned. It is four sessions of counselling, either in person or via telephone counselling so people don't have to travel to access the counselling support. We also know that we can offer extensions to individuals, should they need additional counselling support.

We also recognize the need for the involvement of family members. We can also offer an extension or include family members. Typically, it would be the spouse or partner of the jury member as part of the counselling process. The programs provide that clinical support, but we're very focused on ensuring the integrity of the court process. Should a jury member access the program during the trial, the boundaries and parameters of what can be discussed during the counselling sessions are clearly laid out.

In closing, let me thank you for giving both of us this opportunity today to discuss this jury support program. It's a program that we're both very passionate about. I would be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Thank you very much to both of you for your testimony.

You're not in the room with us, but we're going to move around the table for questions.

We will start with Mr. Liepert.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Thanks to both of you. I have a couple of questions of clarification.

If I understood you correctly, Alberta Justice has a contract with Morneau Shepell to provide these services. Is that the way it works?

3:55 p.m.

Alberta Juror Support Program

Dora Newcombe

Yes, you are correct. We went through a formal RFP, a request for proposal process, and we were awarded the contract.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Can you tell us in rough figures how much that is? The reason I'm asking the question is that I'm trying to get at what roughly the cost is to Alberta Justice and if there are additional costs beyond the contract with Morneau Shepell. It's just so that if the committee has an idea of what it costs in Alberta, it gives us a sense of what it might cost for a national program.

3:55 p.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Court, Court of Queen's Bench, Alberta Juror Support Program

Shauna Jobagy

Mr. Chair, I'd like to respond to Mr. Liepert.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Yes, of course.

3:55 p.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Court, Court of Queen's Bench, Alberta Juror Support Program

Shauna Jobagy

There are statistics regarding the cost. In the contract that was negotiated, the hourly cost was $140 an hour. In your next session, Claude Bourque will be appearing on behalf of Morneau Shepell, and he will have more statistics on the actual dollars.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Okay. Are there other costs that Alberta Justice absorbs in this program, or is it a totally contracted-out initiative?

3:55 p.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Court, Court of Queen's Bench, Alberta Juror Support Program

Shauna Jobagy

It's a totally contracted-out initiative. The only other costs are not related to the program but are in regard to the juror expenses and fees. That's part of our legislation.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

No, I'm talking about the counselling part of it. Morneau Shepell does all of the counselling on behalf of the Alberta government.

3:55 p.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Court, Court of Queen's Bench, Alberta Juror Support Program

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Okay.

You mentioned a couple of numbers at the beginning of your presentation. What kind of tracking mechanism do you have in place that would determine the success or non-success of the program? I would like to know a little more about how you determine whether or not it's money well spent.

3:55 p.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Court, Court of Queen's Bench, Alberta Juror Support Program

Shauna Jobagy

Dora, do you have a response?

3:55 p.m.

Alberta Juror Support Program

Dora Newcombe

Mr. Chair, I'd like to respond to that question.

We do offer and provide statistical reporting back to the Alberta Justice team that is managing the program. A part of our counselling programs is always to look at asking the client to complete a satisfaction survey to ensure the services that are provided are adequately meeting the needs. That quality assurance piece is a standard part of our clinical process as well.

If I can also add to the previous response, the costs to administer the program are included, so the overall administration and support are all part of the program we offer to Alberta Justice.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Without getting into privacy issues, is there an ability for you to provide this committee some sort of a report that would outline how you do the follow-up, the measurements, and that sort of thing?

Is that fair to ask, Mr. Chair?

Could you could provide something to the committee that would give us a sense of how it's working and what parts of it are working?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

I think, Ms. Newcombe, that he's asking for the standard form that you ask the juror to complete to determine their satisfaction—and blank, so it wouldn't have privacy issues.

3:55 p.m.

Alberta Juror Support Program

Dora Newcombe

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will—

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Well, that, Mr. Chair, plus a bit more.

Do you have something that would be a summarization of what the clients have responded to you? Do you provide that on an annual basis to Alberta Justice?

3:55 p.m.

Alberta Juror Support Program

Dora Newcombe

We provide a statistical report on a semi-annual and annual basis that outlines the number of individuals who have accessed the program. I would be happy to take your request away and work with Ms. Jobagy to look at providing those statistics, as well as the satisfaction survey, the feedback mechanism that we use with our clients.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

I would appreciate that. Thank you.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

You still have another minute. I didn't want to cut you off. Thank you.

Just for clarity, I fully understand that for confidentiality reasons you don't have the right to choose to provide it. It's the Alberta ministry that would make that determination. If you could work with them, that would be wonderful.

Thank you very much.

Mr. McKinnon is next.