Evidence of meeting #83 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jurors.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Prof. Jane Goodman-Delahunty
I'll start with the last part. As far as I know, they no longer have any jury trials in South Africa, so that's out of consideration.
5:10 p.m.
Prof. Jane Goodman-Delahunty
In Australia, by state, there are similar provisions that prohibit the discussion of the contents of deliberation, but it is state law that would govern those. There is a provision for jury trials on some Commonwealth matters, but those are very rare and would have their own separate law about that issue.
I think despite their state differences, they're very parallel.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
I was going to go along those same lines. I'm the only one on this side who's not a lawyer. I'm a businessman. When I look at this, I think, Jesus, so I'm curious and I want to ask our law professors whether, over the last 50 years, there is a trend. I understand that most trials—maybe I'm being presumptuous when I say that—are plea bargained at this point. More and more, there is less and less trial.
Has anybody done a study to see what the trend is? How many trials are we talking about?
Then the second thing is what Mr. Housefather was alluding to. I don't know if he's alluding to that, but of course, our law is part of the British system. We have a tradition that has the trial by jurors. Is there any talk within the law profession about moving away from that and moving towards what other jurisdictions have done for centuries, which is just trial by judge?
5:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Criminal Lawyers' Association
That would require you to amend the charter. That may be bigger than what you thought you were biting off with this question.
In some cases, there's a requirement for juries unless the crown consents to there not being a jury. Many people elect to have a trial by judge alone. Many people would elect to have a trial by judge alone even in those cases where it's required. If you're looking to limit the number of jury trials, one thing you could do is to allow an election to be done in every case regardless of what the offence is. We have section 469 of the Criminal Code which requires there to be a jury unless the crown consents otherwise. You could just do away with that and have an election in every case if you wanted to limit the number of jury trials.
I don't know if there's research on trends in the number of jury trials or not. I think it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
5:15 p.m.
Prof. Vanessa MacDonnell
I don't think I have anything to add.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Ms. Davies, you expressed concern about the idea of individualized counselling during the course of a trial. I was wondering if that could be addressed by having a suitably appointed, suitably certified, court-appointed counsellor.
At the same time, I'd like to ask the opposite question to Dr. Kamkar, as to whether group counselling during the course of the trial would be effective.
Maybe we'll start with Ms. Davies or Dr. Kamkar.
5:15 p.m.
Clinical Psychologist, Centre for Addiction and Mental Health
When we finished our conversation, I was actually thinking about it and wanted to include something, so thank you for that.
People can still benefit without necessarily talking about the content of the trials and the materials, on which, I understand, there are legal restrictions. People can really learn evidence-based cognitive behavioural therapy skills and strategies to manage anxiety, mood changes, or any emotional distress. It would be wonderful again as a preventative strategy. We do benefit from evidence-based CBT strategies just generally speaking. How can I manage my emotions? How can I manage my sleep? How can I manage any negative thoughts or worries that I might be going through, without again talking about the contents? Those general strategies in addition to, as you mentioned before, education, can be tremendously beneficial as well.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
That could be done very effectively in a group context?
5:15 p.m.
Clinical Psychologist, Centre for Addiction and Mental Health
Yes, it can be done in a group. Ms. Davies mentioned education, of course, and then there are also evidence-based CBT strategies and skills for better management. Again, with a variety of skills and strategies, we can learn to better manage our emotional distress or any distressing thoughts we may experience, and we can learn about healthy coping, unhealthy coping, normal reactions, warning signs of stress, etc.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Ms. Davies, do you want to finish? Then that will be the end of the meeting.
5:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Criminal Lawyers' Association
I would be concerned about the privacy of individual jurors who are experiencing the evidence or the process differently from one another and about the capacity to deal with some of the issues that were raised in terms of interpersonal conflict. If the stress is the product of a conflict, it may be that people wouldn't raise the issues in a group setting.
I'm not a therapist, so I don't know, but those are the sorts of things that would be of concern to me. We wouldn't want to create a situation that stigmatizes one juror in respect of the group by having them disclose what was going on with them individually.
5:20 p.m.
Clinical Psychologist, Centre for Addiction and Mental Health
She's absolutely right about that. That's very true. We need to very much appreciate individual differences, of course, and I think that if we're going to go the route of groups, having access to individual counselling as well would be tremendously helpful in the case of those specific issues that might arise—they are more often the case than not.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much.
I want to thank all of the witnesses today. It was a real pleasure to have you testify before our committee. We very much appreciate your testimony and the quality of the testimony.
If you have any written submissions that you have not yet provided the committee and you want to, we invite you to please do so.
Have a wonderful day.
The meeting is adjourned.