Evidence of meeting #87 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was victims.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
The independence of the judiciary being what it is, most training is organized through the National Judicial Institute. The Department of Justice has looked at ways to try to partner with the National Judicial Institute to develop training around human trafficking. We continue to explore those opportunities.
I'm aware of some training that has been provided to judges, but has there been a comprehensive initiative? I don't believe so.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Kim Rudd Liberal Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
You may not be able to answer this question, but do you think it's something that would be of benefit to the system?
4:25 p.m.
Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
I don't think I can answer that.
4:25 p.m.
Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
I don't think I should answer that, but what I will say, generally, is that awareness-raising and education for those on the front lines are critically important, especially with such a complex area of law.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Kim Rudd Liberal Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Bhupsingh, you mentioned something about group homes. I believe you said there was opportunity for this to occur within group homes. I'm curious about that, because group homes are in all of our communities. They're generally managed and licensed by provincial governments. Can you tell me why you mentioned group homes or what the experience has been with them?
4:25 p.m.
Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Again, it's just another situation where you may have individuals who are vulnerable largely because they don't have a support structure around them and who, in group homes, potentially could be convinced to traffic. In fact, we have heard of some cases where there have been predators in group homes who try to attract individuals there and to traffic them.
I haven't heard a lot about it. These are new embers, I guess, that I would suggest. I don't have any specific circumstances that I can speak to. I know that we're starting to hear about cases like that in different jurisdictions. That was the purpose of my comment, really. It was just to, number one, identify that we do have vulnerable populations that need a targeted strategy, and that the group home situation was one that we have started to look into.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Kim Rudd Liberal Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you.
Do I have time for a quick one, Mr. Chair?
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Kim Rudd Liberal Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
To you again, Mr. Bhupsingh, I think the question came up about how you track this and tie the pieces together. I do know it has always been a challenge. The Minister of Public Safety talked in the House this week about the Arachnid program and its use with online pornography, etc. Like a spider's web, it can go in and search and provide information. Do you see that tool as having potential in the work that you do?
4:25 p.m.
Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Potentially....
For the committee, Arachnid is basically an Internet web crawler that goes through and identifies images that have previously been identified to the Internet service provider as involving the sexual exploitation of children. The web crawler goes through and identifies for the Internet service provider if those images should be taken down. It's a new tool that's coming out. There may be a potential, I suppose, for human trafficking images. There's a bit of a difference, obviously, between child sexual exploitation over the Internet and human trafficking of people. I don't see why it couldn't be used in a circumstance where human trafficking was taking place and there was child sexual exploitation attached to that.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
I will try to keep this really short. This is for either Mr. Taylor or Ms. Sheppard.
We're not talking IRPA; we're talking the Criminal Code. We're not talking north; we're talking south. Criminal law concerns attorneys general: it's your crown counsel in different provinces that are going to be doing this, am I right? The charging standard is also going to be different. In my province of British Columbia, you have to show a substantial likelihood of conviction. Others don't have anything like that.
I'm going to guess that the conviction rate, and even the willingness to lay charges, varies quite dramatically between the provinces. Do I have that right?
4:30 p.m.
Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Ms. Sheppard might be able to correct me. While the standards might be worded slightly differently in terms of charges, I think they amount to more or less the same thing: the reasonable prospect of conviction and that it be in the public interest to proceed.
I think it's going to depend on local knowledge and practice. You have some crown counsels who are becoming specialized human trafficking prosecutors and, with that, you have their experience and familiarity with the provisions. Others may approve or go forward with charges they are more comfortable with, such as a prostitution-related charge, for example.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
I've certainly heard RCMP officers complain about British Columbia pretty bitterly, about the standard being very different there—but that's a longer conversation to have.
Mr. Bhupsingh, I want to go back to a comment you made about the Internet and how hard it is to get at some of these crimes. It's increasingly difficult—and organized crime is involved in a lot of this, obviously—with the increasing use of the dark web and all of the extraordinary encryption technology. It is going to make it very difficult, I would have thought, to get at some of these crimes the more that this goes on the web and the more that encryption technology is used. Is that accurate?
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
I can just offer general comments. Yes, I think new encryption technologies cause difficulties by hiding a lot of this information that law enforcement or others might use in pursuing some of these investigations. In general, yes, I think it's difficult, but we're developing all sorts of strategies and tools to try to get at that. That doesn't apply just to human trafficking, but a range of things takes place.
Just to comment a little bit on the first point you made about organized crime, there typically tends to be organized crime involvement in human trafficking. I would just say that it's one of many things organized crime is involved in. I know there are some recent statistics on organized crime's involvement in human trafficking. Unfortunately, I don't have them with me this afternoon, but perhaps we can provide those for you.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Absolutely.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
John Aldag Liberal Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Thank you.
I am just visiting this committee for today. This isn't my area. I normally sit on the environment committee, so the topic of human trafficking is brand new to me. It's fascinating. I commend those of you in the field for working on this important issue and this committee for digging into it.
I have a series of questions, but I'll never be invited back if I go over my time, so I'll just throw them out there. If anybody wants to make comments, please do.
Mr. Taylor, you started with the legislative framework. As I was wrapping my head around this, it seemed that to get us to where we are today, there is some government legislation, and there have been some private members' bills. It seems that when you have private members' bills coming in on government legislation, you may not have a cohesive piece of legislation.
The first question I have relates to the legislative framework on this important topic and whether we actually have the right set of tools. Is it a bit of a hodgepodge of legislation, or do all these pieces actually fit together to give those in the field who are doing enforcement and prosecution the right tools to go after this? Do we have the right legislative tools?
4:30 p.m.
Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
They're all in the Criminal Code. They all complement one another. As to whether we have the right mix, I think time will tell. As I said earlier in my remarks, the jurisprudence seems to suggest that the provisions are working as they were intended when debated and discussed by Parliament. In our role advising the government and the minister, we're always looking at whether the law is working as intended and then advising on what improvements can be made if desired.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
John Aldag Liberal Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
It's a sort of flowing train of thought that I have here, but the questions that come to my mind include the following. Do we actually know who the victims are? From that, do we know who the perpetrators are? I think it was mentioned that organized crime is involved in this. Is it primarily organized crime driven, or are there one-off domestic individuals? What's the mix? Do we actually have the data to know who's the victim and who's doing it?
Numbers were presented. I thought those seemed low, and yet they're high for what I would expect in Canada, but then the convictions seem low, and it's been said that it's kind of working its way through the system. What's the magnitude, and do we actually have a handle on that? Do we need to do more? Is there a way of capturing what's involved with this?
Flowing from that, what's behind it? Somebody mentioned the power dynamics, but ultimately, is it about money? That brings me to organized crime. Flowing from that, I tend to think as a legislator. We're working on legalizing cannabis. Part of the motivation for that is to take billions of dollars out of organized crime's hands. If we're doing that, is it actually going to motivate them to go after other sources of revenue, such as this? Do we have the right tools? Are we prepared for that should organized crime move in that direction?
It is sort of a train of thought of questions. There's probably no simple solution, but if anyone has comments, it may help the committee members as they move forward on their report and investigation.
4:35 p.m.
Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Why don't I start, and then I'll turn it to my colleagues?
You mentioned the stats. Just to give you a sense, we talked about the body of human trafficking cases. Ninety five per cent of those are domestic cases and roughly 5% of them are international. The majority of the domestic cases involve young female Canadians trafficked for sexual exploitation.
The latest Juristat on trafficking in persons, from July 2016, indicated that in, I think, a five-year period, between 2009 and 2014, 93% of human trafficking victims in Canada were female, and almost half of them were between the ages of 18 and 24. One quarter of those individuals were under 18. That gives us a little sense of who is being victimized.
The other thing I would say about that is that most of the risk, in terms of being victimized through human trafficking in Canada, tends to be for those groups that are either socially or economically disadvantaged. That's not only a domestic sort of observation; that's an international observation as well.
Maybe I could just start with some of the organized crime pieces. This crime is highly lucrative. We're hearing that somebody who's human trafficked can provide profits of up to $1,000 a day. That is highly lucrative. As we know, organized crime usually tends to move to those areas that are highly profitable.
