Justice Committee on March 23rd, 2021

[John Levy]

Absolutely. Our team has been part of the consultative process for the last year and a half. We're actually in one of those unique positions where we're able to talk about our experience in the States. One of the disadvantages of it not being legal in Canada is that we have these millions and billions of dollars that are floating in the unregulated and grey market and should be brought inside and allowed to grow businesses such as ours and to satisfy leagues for cash revenues that are available.

It's all about the possibilities that are created if and when sports betting becomes entirely legal. Yes, we've been part of the process with the provinces. They're ready to go. Ontario is jonesing to go forward.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

We'll now go to Mr. Badawey for six minutes.

Go ahead, sir.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

May I take this opportunity to first acknowledge that the lands that I'm speaking from here in Niagara are those of the Haudenosaunee and Anishinabe peoples. With great respect to those in the past and still residing here, I give that mention.

With that as well, I do want to thank many members for their bipartisan effort, there's no doubt, throughout the many years of this bill, Bill C-218, being brought forward. To those members, such as MP Irek Kusmierczyk, Brian Masse, Kevin Waugh and Minister Lametti, thank you for bringing this forward and putting it on the table. It's long overdue.

Folks, I think for the most part this bill attaches itself to equitable economic benefits for those across the country. As well, it brings something above ground, legalized wagering for single sport betting, and therefore it's not part of the grey market as it has been in the past.

Being from Niagara, I'll say there's no question that we are positioned to benefit. We are a border community, with two major casinos within an area that attaches itself to a great number of people.

I want to go back to that word “equitable”. With that, here in Niagara, hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs will be created. Tens of millions of dollars will be made. Of course, the equitable balance is going to place us with our competition across the border and there's no doubt we'll benefit.

Putting all that aside, I want to prioritize my time with our indigenous community.

Chief Deer, as well as Chief Delisle, sekoh. It's great to see you folks and I appreciate the time that you're giving us.

You both spoke earlier, and Chief Deer, you in particular had run out of time. With all due respect, I want to give you that time right now, with my time, to expand on some of the comments and points that you were about to make. I feel that a lot of what you and the indigenous community are discussing is very important to create that equity and to ensure that it is a partnership between the provinces and territories, and of course, the federal government.

With that, Chief Deer, I'll go straight to you and allow you to finish some of the topics that you were discussing earlier.

[Chief Gina Deer]

What I was going to finish on is to ensure that we're not shut out this time. Back in 1985, we were shut out. Here is a chance to have an amendment that includes indigenous communities and populations.

We are having a difficult time with COVID, but being involved in the gaming industry has helped us help our community members. We are helping them on an individual basis and with their local businesses through the funds that we have gained through this endeavour with Sports Interaction and Mohawk Online.

Again, we support what's being proposed, but we would also like to see, I wouldn't even say a carve-out, but just a level playing field for indigenous communities.

Within Quebec, we do not have any agreements with the province and we have no revenue share with the province. In other provinces, indigenous populations have some benefit or have some agreements. That's absent here in Quebec. We firmly believe it's the responsibility of Canada to make that amendment in this instance and accommodate first nations, because we always talk about reconciliation and the wrongs that have been done in the past. As we move forward, even with Bill C-15 and UNDRIP, there is the right to economic development.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

That said, Chief Deer, and Chief Delisle, you can jump in at any time as well if you'd like, we see some of the challenges that we have in our indigenous communities all across Canada when it comes to, especially, infrastructure, housing and things of that nature.

Do you find that this equitable balance would enable your community, and many other indigenous communities that will participate, to leverage the dollars that are made available to them by all levels of government to then, therefore, bring your infrastructure in terms of water, sewer and housing into balance with the expectations that you as a community have?

[Chief Gina Deer]

Absolutely. We're not only looking at our community; we have been looking at some of the other communities. We have opened up our donation policy so we could start to assist other first nations in different ways. For us, it's not just about Kahnawake. It is truly about helping all indigenous populations across Turtle Island.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

With that, and I'm sure within your own community as well as others, those asset management plans are being put in place in recognizing your capital needs.

Do you have any price tag? Do you have any infrastructure deficit that you're recognizing within your own community that these balanced funds can contribute to?

[Chief Gina Deer]

Absolutely. We look at some of the people who do not live in the village proper and the water situation they have. We still have people living in substandard housing. We're making efforts to fill in all the gaps as they come to us. There is language and culture, for instance. We're working very hard to revive that. This was almost a lost language at one point.

My aunt has passed away.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

I'm sorry to hear that.

[Chief Gina Deer]

I will be going to her funeral. She was a first-language speaker. This job was very important, and she gave me the strength to be here today.

Helping our people is integral, and this revenue does help our people.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

On behalf of the whole committee, we all extend our condolences and sympathies to you and your family. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

I thank you for being here and for giving us your input. I feel that ultimately the funds that can be leveraged with respect to this bill being passed, and of course the involvement we have with you, will go to those infrastructure needs you have in your community.

[Chief Gina Deer]

Niá:wen.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Niá:wen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thanks very much, Mr. Badawey.

Chief Deer, I am very sorry for your loss.

We will go now to Monsieur Fortin.

Please go ahead, sir. You have six minutes.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here today. It is always important to have different perspectives on important issues like this.

My first question is for Mr. Levy. I understand from your testimony, Mr. Levy, that you believe that Bill C-218 is a good bill, but that ultimately it should be Bill C-13, since you say that horse racing should be excluded from this authorization. I clearly understood your testimony on that.

I would like to know the reason why, in your opinion, horse racing should be excluded from Bill C-218.

[John Levy]

Your question makes an important point. Hopefully, there's no confusion about this.

We support an amendment to Bill C-218 so it basically follows the same approach as Bill C-13, which as written, did have protection for the horse-racing industry. My understanding is that the racing industry is fully supportive of this amendment. You could go into the specific details of it, but without going into the details, it basically protects racing to be able to operate and conduct racing the way they always have, and it didn't get caught up in Bill C-218 with an unintended consequence. It's an amendment to Bill C-218 to bring it in line with what was originally proposed for Bill C-13, which is favourable to the horsemen, and which the horsemen are in favour of and are supporting.

The second element they're talking about, which is historical racing, is an additional amendment. Quite frankly, I don't know what historical racing is. I think there were some comments.... I'm a horseman, too. I know Bill and Sandy directly. I think that may work or not, but it certainly should be debated at some future time.

For now, I think the amendment we are proposing and that's being fully supported by everybody is to bring Bill C-218 to look like Bill C-13. Get it passed. Let everybody win, having betting be a part of a licence agreement impacted by it.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Levy.

You will tell me that it may not be possible, but I would like to understand the reasoning behind this. The horse racing industry is an expensive industry, we agree. Horses have to be bought and bred, feed has to be bought, jockeys have to be paid, and so on. Sport is an expensive business. You only have to look at the salaries of hockey players. They are not trivial. It costs tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars per team to pay staff and athletes. Since there are also significant costs in the horse racing industry, I would like to understand why there would be a different regime there than for other sports.

I understand that there are accommodations to be made. If a province is managing sports betting, for example, on all the sports activities in their jurisdiction, there may have to be a way to share the revenue with the teams and so on. I understand that.

However, why should the horse racing industry be treated differently than others?

I'm not saying I'm against it, I just want to understand.

[John Levy]

Again, I think the issue must relate to what's in front of us right now, which is Bill C-218. What we want to focus on is that we don't want to do anything that's hurting the racing industry. What the amendment that we're proposing will do is it will leave the racing industry in the same position they're in now.

Are there other issues with respect to racing? I'm sure there are. I mean, I used to be in that business. But the reason they're supporting sports betting is that they see it as something that will really benefit horse racing at Woodbine and all of the other tracks, and the horsemen and everybody all across the country. That's why they're supporting it.

If there are other issues to deal with, let's deal with them down the road, but let's bring it in from the cold, from the grey market, and let's bring it into a licensed and regulated [Technical difficulty—Editor] environment. We don't want to miss this opportunity this time. We missed it a number of years ago. None of those dollars were working for any Canadians over the last period of time. Now is the time to solve this problem. If there are other things that would help horse racing in the future, I would be all in favour of looking at them.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you.

I have a question for Chief Deer.

As I understand it, there has been no negotiation or agreement with Quebec on the issues you addressed in your remarks.

What is your specific request with respect to Bill C-218?

I understood you were going to suggest amendments to us in writing. We will receive them later, but for now, can you give us an overview of your requests?

[Chief Gina Deer]

We're looking for a carve-out [Technical difficulty—Editor] ensure that we are not left behind and forgotten this time. With regard to a lot of the terms we heard here, such as the offshore market and the illegal market, we do not fit in those categories. We are a legitimate gaming institution here in Kahnawake. We have the regulatory side and we also [Technical difficulty—Editor]. Through that, in the last 25 years, we've been working in this industry. We've asked to have recognition from both Quebec and Canada to come to some sort of agreement around this. That has never happened. There have always been issues.

Again, we are here today to say that we have a legitimate gaming architecture here in Kahnawake, as it was described, and the amendments afford us a spot so that we are not labelled either offshore or illegal, as has happened in the past.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Chief Deer.

Thank you, Mr. Fortin. That was an extra minute for you.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

I hope you're keeping track.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I'm not, but I trust you.